Italian court condems 23 CIA agents in absentia for kidnapping

[Kuya]

For some reason i can't find it on any mainstream American news, but i did find it on Spanish and French news sites:

La justicia italiana condena a 23 agentes de la CIA por secuestro · ELPAÍS.com

La justice italienne condamne 23 ex-agents de la CIA, les Etats-Unis se disent "déçus" - LeMonde.fr

Some translation from first source:

Judge of Milan, Oscar Magi, on Wednesday condemned in absentia 23 CIA officers to prison terms of between five and eight years for the abduction of Abu Omar, former imam of Milan who was kidnapped in the capital of Lombardy in 2003. The judge who signed the landmark decision ruled that there way to prosecute, under statesecrets allegations, the former director of SISMI (Italian secret service) Niccolò Pollari and five of his men. The prosecution had requested 13 years for Pollari and 10 for his second in command, Marco Mancini.

The former CIA chief in Italy, Jeff Castelli, and two more agents also avoided a likely sentence because of the implementation of the consular immunity sought by the U.S.. Among the American agents, the greater sentence of eight years, went to former CIA chief in Milan, Robert Seldon Lady. Washington expressed its "disappointment at the verdict," as said by State Department spokesman, Ian Kell.

The Abu Omar case is one of the best documented of the strategy of capturing and illegal deportation launched by the government of George W. Bush and the U.S. agency in the context of the global war against terrorism.

General Pollari, seven men of his team and 26 CIA agents were accused of abducting Islamic cleric Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr, Abu Omar (Alexandria, 1963), when he was being investigated by prosecutors for alleged terrorism, 17 February 2003.

The ruling finds that the facts alleged by the prosecution were proven. Omar was accosted on the street by two Italian officials in broad daylight as he walked from his house to a mosque. They threw a spray in his face, put him in a white van and took him to the U.S. base at Aviano. He was tortured for seven hours. Then he was boarded on a plane and moved him to Cairo. He was imprisoned for nearly three years in Torah, where he was again tortured and lost a leg and part of one ear.

You can use this for translations. The site of Le Monde also has a translator you can use that is very efficient.

The ruling is very significant as it is the first time American participants in the War on Terror tactics of the Bush Administration have been found guilty in the court of law. The US will mostly likely refuse to deport the CIA agents and hold the ruling as illegitimate.

[guartz]

NPR talked about it this afternoon.


edit: It was like, "CIA lives in a murky world of espionage, where they have to break other nation's laws to do business"

I expect when this does hit CNN and FOX, it will be presented similarly.

[Korietsu]

And that's what happens when CIA spooks fuck up.

[FNH]

The US will mostly likely refuse to deport the CIA agents and hold the ruling as illegitimate.

Already have. They were recommended to not travel outside the US now.

[Kuya]

NPR talked about it this afternoon.


edit: It was like, "CIA lives in a murky world of espionage, where they have to break other nation's laws to do business"

I expect when this does hit CNN and FOX, it will be presented similarly.

Of course i did not check every american news site, i just looked at google and saw no mainstream american news site reporting it within the first two pages. I did find truthdig though.

[Korietsu]

You know, you'd think we'd have learned by now that black bagging people in broad daylight is bad news. You'd think that letting them live after that would be worse, but apparently the CIA operatives are losing their touch.

[Khamsin]

That's why you make it look like someone else did it, and leave no evidence you were there! And fake passports.

[Zeb]

Was Jason Bourne busy that weekend?

[Kuya]

A bit funny that the idea thus far best represented in the thread is not so much outrage or a small sign of disaproval over the CIA breaking other nation's laws and kidnapping people with no accountability, but rather that they did not do it "right".

[Kuya]

Even though Jason Bourne would definitely have done it right.

[Korietsu]

A bit funny that the idea thus far best represented in the thread is not so much outrage or a small sign of disaproval over the CIA breaking other nation's laws and kidnapping people with no accountability, but rather that they did not do it "right".

While I don't disagree that what we do should be more within the bounds of reason and law, it was more a jab at how dumb the US DOD has gotten, and how sloppy the US Govt has gotten.

In other news, Borne is booked on weekends and is currently engaged in fighting squads of terrorists using their own Korans against them while tracking down Bin Laden with a compass and a rusty spork.

[Pirian]

We caught 2 spies for cuba a little while ago and punished them accordingly. All countries with an established government have these programs going on; whether or not they are as big/funded as the US is another story completely.

[Rhyis.]

Least your spies aren't known for having their top secret documents stolen at a hockey game.


No joke. A hockey game.

[Solefald]

We caught 2 spies for cuba a little while ago and punished them accordingly. All countries with an established government have these programs going on; whether or not they are as big/funded as the US is another story completely.

This isn't about spying, it's about the CIA kidnapping a citizen of one country and sending him to another for interrogation.

[Korietsu]

This isn't about spying, it's about the CIA kidnapping a citizen of one country and sending him to another for interrogation.

Which is really Black Ops, which is just a tad bit higher than spying. Lesson learned, don't do shit in broad daylight, or keep a leash on your dogs.

[Niiro]

A bit funny that the idea thus far best represented in the thread is not so much outrage or a small sign of disaproval over the CIA breaking other nation's laws and kidnapping people with no accountability, but rather that they did not do it "right".

Bolded for emphasis.

One of the purposes of the CIA is to break international law and do things in other countries that no foreign power has any right to do.

They've been doing this a long time and they're gonna keep doing it for as long as they like. There's little reason to be outraged as it amounts to nothing.

Who's gonna stop them?

[alt]

Most likely will refuse to deport the agents and hold the ruling illegitimate? Haha, how about for sure.

If the U.S. did deport the agents to Italy it would essentially be admitting to fault in the matter and agreeing that it acted illegally. Not gonna happen.

And the ruling is pretty shaky at best. No idea how you can hold a real trial and convict someone in "absentia"... That goes against modern western jurisprudence in a number of ways.

[Kuya]

Bolded for emphasis.

One of the purposes of the CIA is to break international law and do things in other countries that no foreign power has any right to do.

They've been doing this a long time and they're gonna keep doing it for as long as they like. There's little reason to be outraged as it amounts to nothing.

Who's gonna stop them?

I suppose it's true, when something looks like a tradition, people are more willing to support it regardless of how fucked up it is.

I don't know if it's just that Americans explicitly don't care, or they're just been consumned in passivity.

[Khamsin]

I suppose it's true, when something looks like a tradition, people are more willing to support it regardless of how fucked up it is.

I don't know if it's just that Americans explicitly don't care, or they're just been consumned in passivity.

It's an American agency doing the things we established the agency to do, with our tax dollars. If we didn't want them doing what they do, the constituents would have their representatives abolish it. The country is a democratic republic, we can't hide behind the government. If it does something we disapprove of, we can elect someone else to make changes. Like we did with Bush. Although abolishing the CIA may be a bit trickier, it's there because we want it to be.

Short story, they're our team doing our work to keep us ahead in the world. It's not passivity, or tradition. We're Americans, the CIA is us.

[Demosthenes11]

It's an American agency doing the things we established the agency to do, with our tax dollars. If we didn't want them doing what they do, the constituents would have their representatives abolish it. The country is a democratic republic, we can't hide behind the government. If it does something we disapprove of, we can elect someone else to make changes. Like we did with Bush. Although abolishing the CIA may be a bit trickier, it's there because we want it to be.

Short story, they're our team doing our work to keep us ahead in the world. It's not passivity, or tradition. We're Americans, the CIA is us.

the CIA is far too big, established, and powerful to ever be abolished at this point. They have done things so fucked up not to mention many of the things they do are just completely useless. People may still want the CIA to be there but only because they don't know what the CIA does.

Every country does this kind of stuff anymore (countries that matter) and it would be foolish to simply only reprimand the US for it. It's fucked up - it shouldn't happen, etc but that won't even stop anyone in the world from doing it. Fucked up world, etc