Want to get into trail biking... need advice.

[Cyn]

Basically title says it all, wanting to get into some trail biking, but I have never done it and don't really know anyone who has. If anyone has any experience with it, I'd love some pointers for starting out. Things like what optional parts are good for the bike, good bikes, good helmets, what websites are good for gathering info, etc. As far as what bike I'm going to buy, I'm leaning toward the Diamondback Recoil, but I don't really know what the pros and cons of a full suspension vs a hardtail are.

North Carolina has tons of trails, everything from beginner to shit that could easily kill you, so I think this would probably be a good place to learn, but considering how much biking equipment seems to cost, I'd like to avoid any stupid mistakes.

[Kyo]

Buy a bike and ride it.

[Cyn]

Not if you're just going to steal it.

[Kyo]

Who's to say I didnt already steal it.

[Xiona]

apparently mountain dew is key

[Zalius]

i kind of want to too, but i'm worried that i'll end up going high and wander off/get lost. if i see something interesting, fuck the bike, i want to use my legs.

[Cadsuane]

Basically title says it all, wanting to get into some trail biking, but I have never done it and don't really know anyone who has. If anyone has any experience with it, I'd love some pointers for starting out. Things like what optional parts are good for the bike, good bikes, good helmets, what websites are good for gathering info, etc. As far as what bike I'm going to buy, I'm leaning toward the Diamondback Recoil, but I don't really know what the pros and cons of a full suspension vs a hardtail are.

North Carolina has tons of trails, everything from beginner to shit that could easily kill you, so I think this would probably be a good place to learn, but considering how much biking equipment seems to cost, I'd like to avoid any stupid mistakes.

Unless you're a fatass, below average strength, or have somehow made it to your twenties without learning how to ride a bicycle, you already have the requisite skills. Get a decent mid range bike that'll set you back about 4 or 5 hundred bucks, something with an aluminum frame, easy fire shifters, a suspended fork and a hard tail (rear shocks are counter-productive). You don't want a touring bike (slick tires and gear ratios are improper) or a downhill bike (stupidly expensive, overdeveloped suspension), you just want a relatively cheap and conventional mountain bike. Then buy a water bottle, some sunglasses and some biking gloves, and vwala. You can accessorize further or splurge on a 2 grand bike, both make you look like a filthy yuppie.

If you get into it further and want to upgrade, forks, deraileurs, shifters, brakes, etc. are all easily replaceable. In particular a high end deraileur and hydraulic disc brakes are two admittedly nice ammenities that you won't find on a $500 bike but can easily be added at a later date. I repeat the bit about rear suspension; don't buy a bike that has it. Your knees provide plenty of shock absorption as it is as long as your ass isn't in the seat which it shouldn't be on any trail with an incline. Having a soft tail robs energy from your pedal strokes and makes biking harder than it has to be for no real benefit.

[Kainos]

I'm not a bike guy but I do a lot of hiking myself. If your serious I really would suggest signing up for this website:

www.trails.com

It has a lot of easy to read tutorials on outdoor stuff as well as biking. There is a trail finder that you can look up various trails anywhere in the country ect.

Here's a bunch of stuff on trail biking, I'm sure you'll find your answers in there.

http://www.trails.com/sub_10-mountain-biking.html

[Takedown3]

my problem with biking is that it hurts my ass after like 30 mins, i used to love it when i was a teen and want to get back into as well. but i need some suggestions on a good seat that doesnt look like its for gramma

[Cyn]

Unless you're a fatass, below average strength, or have somehow made it to your twenties without learning how to ride a bicycle, you already have the requisite skills. Get a decent mid range bike that'll set you back about 4 or 5 hundred bucks, something with an aluminum frame, easy fire shifters, a suspended fork and a hard tail (rear shocks are counter-productive). You don't want a touring bike (slick tires and gear ratios are improper) or a downhill bike (stupidly expensive, overdeveloped suspension), you just want a relatively cheap and conventional mountain bike. Then buy a water bottle, some sunglasses and some biking gloves, and vwala. You can accessorize further or splurge on a 2 grand bike, both make you look like a filthy yuppie.

If you get into it further and want to upgrade, forks, deraileurs, shifters, brakes, etc. are all easily replaceable. In particular a high end deraileur and hydraulic disc brakes are two admittedly nice ammenities that you won't find on a $500 bike but can easily be added at a later date. I repeat the bit about rear suspension; don't buy a bike that has it. Your knees provide plenty of shock absorption as it is as long as your ass isn't in the seat which it shouldn't be on any trail with an incline. Having a soft tail robs energy from your pedal strokes and makes biking harder than it has to be for no real benefit.

Yeah, that's kind of what I am leaning towards, buying a $500 bike and then if I like it, replacing parts with better quality replacements as they wear/break. The main reason I was looking at a full suspension is because most of the trails around here tend to be relatively flat (low hills, 2'-3' drops) but are strewn with rocks, roots, and small downed trees. I can see where the rear suspension would take away from things like being able to push down on declines to save on pedaling, but I am kind of wondering if that's better in a place where literally every trail is carved out of a forest.

Edit: Oh and I'm about to turn 30, relatively fit but I haven't ridden a bicycle in over a decade.

[Vacht]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir97936_CYo

[Cadsuane]

Yeah, that's kind of what I am leaning towards, buying a $500 bike and then if I like it, replacing parts with better quality replacements as they wear/break. The main reason I was looking at a full suspension is because most of the trails around here tend to be relatively flat (low hills, 2'-3' drops) but are strewn with rocks, roots, and small downed trees. I can see where the rear suspension would take away from things like being able to push down on declines to save on pedaling, but I am kind of wondering if that's better in a place where literally every trail is carved out of a forest.

Edit: Oh and I'm about to turn 30, relatively fit but I haven't ridden a bicycle in over a decade.

I wouldn't recommend it. A portion of the energy you use on every pedal stroke will be spent compressing the rear shock as opposed to actually turning the crank, sitting or standing. It's especially apparent on steep inclines. This is partially true for a front shock as well but it's not as significant, especially if the front shock has proper stiffness. It's just another irritance making you tired more quickly than if you just had a hard tail. I don't even see the point for comfort's sake, since negotiating difficult terrain demands that you be standing on your pedals to counter balance the bike, in which case your knees are taking the hits as opposed to your ass. Shocks are for downhill bikers; people who take big jumps. On anything else It's just an ammenity that kids bug their parents for and impress their friends with.

edit: whatever you choose, rear suspension or no, remember that you can't retrofit the bike at a later date to reverse your decision one way or another. Also, if you buy a bike without disc brakes, try to get a frame that at least has disc brake mounts. Without the mounts, you're stuck with V brakes forever unless you can find someone to weld to aluminum for you.

[Casteel]

Unless you're a fatass, below average strength, or have somehow made it to your twenties without learning how to ride a bicycle, you already have the requisite skills. Get a decent mid range bike that'll set you back about 4 or 5 hundred bucks, something with an aluminum frame, easy fire shifters, a suspended fork and a hard tail (rear shocks are counter-productive). You don't want a touring bike (slick tires and gear ratios are improper) or a downhill bike (stupidly expensive, overdeveloped suspension), you just want a relatively cheap and conventional mountain bike. Then buy a water bottle, some sunglasses and some biking gloves, and vwala. You can accessorize further or splurge on a 2 grand bike, both make you look like a filthy yuppie.

If you get into it further and want to upgrade, forks, deraileurs, shifters, brakes, etc. are all easily replaceable. In particular a high end deraileur and hydraulic disc brakes are two admittedly nice ammenities that you won't find on a $500 bike but can easily be added at a later date. I repeat the bit about rear suspension; don't buy a bike that has it. Your knees provide plenty of shock absorption as it is as long as your ass isn't in the seat which it shouldn't be on any trail with an incline. Having a soft tail robs energy from your pedal strokes and makes biking harder than it has to be for no real benefit.

Jesus Christ. It's been a long time since I've seen so much misinformation in a single post...

Anyway...

A few important things...

1. Find some local bike shops. Avoid big chain sporting good stores and other such stores like the plague... Seriously. Find a good local shop or two or three and get to know the employees. You'll be able to get a bike that is actually setup properly and get meaningful advice about equipment, gear, local trails, events, and all sorts of stuff that will help immensely when you're starting out.

2. Start small. It's much less horrible starting out if you ease yourself into it. Sure, you might feel like a bit of a goon doing it... but everyone has to start somewhere. I have quite a few friends that have been permanently turned off to mountain biking because of choosing the wrong trails. Starting out with something too technical or too physically demanding will ruin you.

3. Ride multiple bikes before making a purchase. Even if it's just riding in the parking lot at the shop. There are so many different types of mountain bikes and every company has a different idea of what a certain type of bike should be. You'll end up being much happier with the bike you end up with. Trust me. I'd personally suggest looking for a recreational hardtail mountain bike.

4. There's nothing wrong with buying a bike that is a few years old. Local shops will almost always have older bikes just sitting around with hefty discounts while people lap up this years model. Bike companies tend to wait at least 2 years (and a lot longer in some cases) before making major changes anyway.

5. There's nothing wrong with buying used either. Provided you're careful. Most local shops will have demo bikes that have been well taken care of that are heavily discounted. Buying used from the local classifieds or craigslist isn't a bad idea either, provided you are able to ride the bike around a bit and get it thoroughly inspected by a knowledgeable third-party before you purchase it.

6. BUY A HELMET. WEAR IT WHEN YOU RIDE. I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH. Another thing about gear, I personally prefer hydration packs to water bottles. They're easier to use, hold more water, and allow you to carry tool kits, repair kits, spare tubes, food and other stuff with you easily.

Hardtails are generally better for beginners than full-suspension bikes. You get better parts for your money, lighter weight, and you don't have to worry about pivots, bearings and bushings needing to be maintained. They also help you develop technical skill and proper handling because they are less forgiving than a good full suspension bike.

That being said, full-suspension bikes are a game-changer if you get more into things later on. Rear suspension is anything but counter-productive. A properly setup full-suspension bike will allow you to push harder and longer, inspire confidence and completely change how you ride for the better. This is provided you have a good base built up of course. There are a wide range of full-suspension bikes that cater to most any type of rider.

Some idiots will tell you that "ZOMG SUSPENSION BOB SAPS SO MUCH ENERGY LAWL". They fail to take into account that a properly setup full-suspension bike (The majority of freeride and downhill bikes excluded...) barely bobs, if at all. They also fail to take into account that rear suspension will keep your rear wheel glued to the ground and flowing over obstacles, rather than deflecting off of them, allowing for better traction, grip and letting you pick a more direct line. Which will save you more energy than whatever bobbing you perceive takes away.

As far as general upgrading on lower-end bikes goes, you'll notice the biggest difference by upgrading the fork and wheels.

Upgrading to a higher end fork will allow you to better adjust how it reacts to the trail which will give you more control. In addition to better adjustment, the quality of the travel is better on higher end models as well.

Higher end wheels are generally more durable than lower end ones. Also, they tend to get lighter as well. Wheels are rotating weight so any weight loss in that area is very noticeable.

Other upgrades will improve the performance of your bike as well, just not as much.


Some general rules of thumb for riding:


When you're starting out or feel like you're in over your head... There's nothing wrong with getting off of your bike and walking.

Always look at the part of the trail that you want to go to, not the parts that you want to avoid. Under most circumstances it's a good idea to look a few yards ahead of your front tire as well.

Learn to use your brakes properly. Modulate/Feather them. In most situations you should only need to use one or two fingers while braking. You should be using your front brake most of the time. The rear brake should be reserved for helping you emergency stop and other such situations.


Tips for descending -


Stay loose, especially your elbows and knees.

Get your ass out of the saddle.

Don't be afraid to shift your weight rearward as needed. This will help you maintain control.


Tips for climbing -


Make sure your seatpost and seat are adjusted properly! You're going to want to have the seatpost high enough to where there is a slight bend in your knees, no more and no less. This will save your knees from getting ruined, prevent you from tiring out prematurely, and give you great power transfer. Your saddle is going to need to be in a position to where it doesn't put your junk to sleep and that when you're at the bottom of your pedal stroke your knees are parallel with the balls of your feet.

Try to maintain a steady 80-90 RPM while climbing.

Always shift gears before you need to, this will help you maintain your momentum and be easier on you and your bike.

On really steep climbs it's good to shift your butt to the nose of the saddle and shift your weight forward a bit. This will allow you to maintain traction with the rear wheel while preventing the front wheel from lifting allowing you to keep control.

I dunno why but, for whatever reason, keeping my face relaxed really helps me get in the zone.

Anyway... I hope this helps you and others out.

Forgot to mention a great website for information about everything mountain bike related: mtbr (I wish I could post URLS ) - Equipment and gear reviews and a forum with a large and helpful community.

[Aleth]

I used to cycle trails a lot with my brother when we were in our teens.

Buy some full-finger gloves like fox downhill/trail/motorcross pawtector gloves.

http://www.bikefusion.co.uk/images/p...Gloves-Red.jpg

http://www.knetracing.com/images/MyG...x%20Gloves.JPG

Even if you're doing light trail or single-track and not downhill stuff, just do it. Hand injuries suck so much. Whenever I ever rode forgetting gloves like these I have come back with hands missing most of their skin. Now my hands are super ugly T_T

If you find yourself enjoying downhill or fast singletrack stuff do get shin/knee armour, again it makes falls that would normally mash parts of you into something harmless.
Doubly so if you start doing any jumping or big drop-offs.

If there's somewhere near by where you can rent a bike at a local trail, I'd recommend you try a day with a hard tail, then later a day with full suspension.

It depends what you want most out of your riding. If you want to cycle real distancey stuff look at XC setups - if you find yourself drawn to descents look for the longer-travel less breakable stuff. You can find decent full-suspension frames for XC as well as downhilling.

(If you go for full suspension, avoid unified rear triangle frames - they're poop as you're not properly suspended when you stand on the pedals - like when you're going downhill for example.)

I would recommend a full suspension bike because when you do find yourself on a fun fast descent or on some crappy bumpy ground you'll have more control and be more comfortable. Also you're less likely to bend the frame if you start doing jumps.

Also don't break both of your arms!

http://www.imperfectwomen.com/wp-con...n_AA039990.jpg

No matter what you do, buy full finger gloves! Wear them even if your hands are too hot, or too cold!

Edit: It is worth noting you'll get a better hardtail for less money. Do not buy a cheapo full suspension frame. The rear shock and engineering... and welding... of a full suspension frame have to be good for it to be worthwhile or even safe.

[Cadsuane]

That being said, full-suspension bikes are a game-changer if you get more into things later on. Rear suspension is anything but counter-productive. A properly setup full-suspension bike will allow you to push harder and longer, inspire confidence and completely change how you ride for the better. This is provided you have a good base built up of course. There are a wide range of full-suspension bikes that cater to most any type of rider.

Some idiots will tell you that "ZOMG SUSPENSION BOB SAPS SO MUCH ENERGY LAWL". They fail to take into account that a properly setup full-suspension bike (The majority of freeride and downhill bikes excluded...) barely bobs, if at all. They also fail to take into account that rear suspension will keep your rear wheel glued to the ground and flowing over obstacles, rather than deflecting off of them, allowing for better traction, grip and letting you pick a more direct line. Which will save you more energy than whatever bobbing you perceive takes away.

If at all? Suspension compresses under downward force, or it's not suspension. No amount of tech changes that fundamental fact. A mountain bike steep grade in 4th or 5th with a rider fully standing on the pedals, pulling hard on the handle bars and throwing several hundred newtons downwards compresses any rear shock substantially and wastes energy. The steeper the climb, the bigger the disadvantage for a soft tail. Even the grip advantage to effort that you detailed is debateably marginal and sounds more like a sales brosure for shimano than something someone who knows what the fuck would say.

[Casteel]

If at all? Suspension compresses under downward force, or it's not suspension. No amount of tech changes that fundamental fact. A mountain bike steep grade in 4th or 5th with a rider fully standing on the pedals, pulling hard on the handle bars and throwing several hundred newtons downwards compresses any rear shock substantially and wastes energy. The steeper the climb, the bigger the disadvantage for a soft tail. Even the grip advantage to effort that you detailed is debateably marginal and sounds more like a sales brosure for shimano than something someone who knows what the fuck would say.

You don't know what you're talking about. It's okay though, it sounds like you haven't been active in the sport for a long while and haven't ridden a decent full suspension bike.

Read up on modern suspension design (DW-link, Virtual Pivot Point, ABP, and Specialized's FSR with Brain), suspension leverage ratios and shock damping (Curnutt shocks, Pro-pedal, Low speed compression adjustment, etc) and maybe ride a modern full suspension bike or two and get back to me.

If you really hate having suspension while you're riding uphill most shocks offer a lock-out option that completely stops suspension under normal conditions. :X

[Cadsuane]

You don't know what you're talking about. It's okay though, it sounds like you haven't been active in the sport for a long while and haven't ridden a decent full suspension bike.

Read up on modern suspension design (DW-link, Virtual Pivot Point, ABP, and Specialized's FSR with Brain), suspension leverage ratios and shock damping (Curnutt shocks, Pro-pedal, Low speed compression adjustment, etc) and maybe ride a modern full suspension bike or two and get back to me.

If you really hate having suspension while you're riding uphill most shocks offer a lock-out option that completely stops suspension under normal conditions. :X

Damping stops oscillation, it doesn't magically stop the shock from compressing when you push on a pedal. The shock doesn't bounce (at a given range of pedalling frequency and force, naturally no amount of damping would stop oscillation with slow deep pedal strokes) which doubtlessly mitigates the problem of lost energy but it will never eliminate it. The most efficient way to transmit transverse torque to a bike wheel is with a perfectly rigid frame, period. There is no way around that... except if you lock the shock obviously.

[Aesctaa]

The biggest factors that will affect your enjoyment when you are just starting out:

1) Fitness level: don't expect it to be a blast if you are seriously unfit, it takes time to get to the stage you don't even consider the uphill sections to be a chore, have some discipline and just keep at it until then, it will get better.

2) Trail choice: Start by taking your new bike for a few rides around some flat streets, try dropping off kerbs/learning to bunnyhop/getting used to it. Then progress to flatish XC trails, without any serious rocks/roots to worry about. Eventually the limit to how severe a trail you want to try is up to you, but if you are starting with a simple $500 hardtail you should use some common sense, it won't be able to handle a full on DH or freeride course.

3) Bike choice: At the $500 mark a hardtail is your only real choice, you get a lot more for your money with a hardtail, avoid 'jump bikes'. Something like a Specialized Rockhopper/Hardrock would be a fine choice. Best bet, as has been mentioned already would be to find a solid local bike shop that sells a number of respected brands(Specialized, Trek, Giant, Santa Cruz, Yeti, etc) and let them know what you want, they should have a decent choice around that price bracket.

Don't be put off if you break a bunch of parts, rear mechs are notoriously easy to snap off mountain bikes, likewise depending on your weight, bottom brackets, handlebars, stems, pedals are all candidates for replacement.

Eventually if you enjoy it, investing in a more expensive bike will enhance the experience pretty substantially, If you primarily like the fitness aspect of it, something like a Specialized Epic is a seriously nice buy, likewise if you decide you want to try more downhill runs with bigger drops/roots/etc, there are burlier bikes like the Santa Cruz V10 that can handle literally anything. but expect to pay up to $10k for the very best equipment.

And regarding the energy wasting argument against full suspension, its 90% dependant on the bike, there are some like the Specialized Epic that pretty much give you the best of both worlds, any tiny inefficiencies in pedaling performance are countered by reducing fatigue by lessening trail vibration/impacts. Christoph Sauser won countless XC world cups/world championships on a full Sus bike so if you are paying enough, you can get the best of both worlds. Most full sus bikes, particularly single-pivot designs, do reduce pedaling efficiency. Just avoid full suspension until you know enough about it, and have enough personal trail experience to make an informed decision if its right for you or not.