Ivy League Colleges: For what purpose?

[Antithesis]

I honestly was hesitant to make this thread because I still don't know how to word this post properly enough to convey my exact thoughts (I'll give it my best shot though.) I recently was talking to my best friend and learned that after he attended a very nice private high school and got a nice education from there, everyone and their mother from his class basically applied to the best colleges in the nation (MIT, Harvard, Penn, Yale, etc.) A vast majority did not get accepted into the colleges (including him.) When I asked him how he felt when he said we was not able to get into MIT, he told me he felt really bad for not getting in and even worse because he went to one of the state colleges here in Florida (a very good one to boot) instead of one of the better schools.

This ultimately raised a question from me, why? I have seen, read and heard about all these prestigious Ivy League Colleges and how they frequently come out on Top 10 lists in addition to (theoretically) spitting out the best career-ready students for the nation. Sure, you'll be in debt for a good couple of years or so (Assuming you don't have everything paid off in which case, fuck you) but was it really worth it? To have the ability to say "Hey, look! I have Princeton on my resume! That helps me get a better job! Right? Right?"

When I think of these Ivy League Colleges, my assumption is that they are suppose to be the top colleges in America for a reason. The education from these institutions are suppose to be the best of the best in the nation. But in reality, all I see is that you basically end up paying five times or more the amount you would at another college for a slightly better education, mountains of busy work and of course the aforementioned college name on your resume.

I didn't make this topic to rag on these colleges. I am positive not every single student that attends these schools are snot-nosed brats spoiled by mommy and daddy who think they are better then everyone else because they know about some silly event in 1943. I made this topic because I sincerly want to know what you guys have exprienced, seen or heard about these colleges and if they are really worth going to. I'm sure for some, they dream of going to Ivy League Colleges for a much better education but for most, I feel like they are only going for busywork.

Again, I apologize if my wording is off in any way.

[Holly Short]

A lot of employers are still wowed by it, so it still is about recognition. Going to harvard catches more eyes than OSU or some other state school, really.

It's just like going to a well known restaurant, it's always going to cost more.

It's similar to how Johns Hopkins and Harvard Law stand out in the medical and law fields.

I can't really think of any other reason.

[Arrmani]

I feel the same way you do. The way it seems to me is no matter what education you get, you'll still get taught what you need to do on your job. I'm sure some people jizz in their pants when they see an Ivy league school, but I'm already not thrilled at the debt from state school, I don't think I'd want to go to an Ivy school if I even got in.

[Antithesis]

I feel the same way you do. The way it seems to me is no matter what education you get, you'll still get taught what you need to do on your job. I'm sure some people jizz in their pants when they see an Ivy league school, but I'm already not thrilled at the debt from state school, I don't think I'd want to go to an Ivy school if I even got in.

One thing that really made me want to punch a baby was when I was talking to my best friend's brother about colleges (He is a Senior this year in a high school.) When I told him why bother going to these expensive schools if you don't have the money nor the time to back it up? One of these few things he said was "Why does everyone accept mediocrity? I want to shoot for the stars and I want to make it." For some reason when he said that, it irked me in a way that made we want to punch his gut out until his face was blue.

[wagon]

Some companies (fortune 100) will only hire from ivy universities or tier 1 schools, which are called seeder schools, it's incredibly difficult to even land an interview, much less getting an offer, if you aren't attending these schools.

It really comes down to what you want to do eventually. If you're only getting a liberal art degree then the money may not be well spent. If you want to do research and science at a graduate school, some large state colleges may be on par with ivys for a fraction of the cost. You get the best bang for your buck by going to an ivy if you want to get into banking, law, or other service industries.

[Dmitry]

If people want to waste their money on a name, that's their decision. It's the same as brand recognition and why you can pay $20 for a tank top that has an Aero logo printed on it instead of Hanes

[sephir]

A friend of mine got into Priceton a few years ago. She actually calculated that based on 4 years of school she would be nearly half a million in debt just from tuition.


I think part of it has to do with specialization. MIT definitely has a better engineering and mathematics department than my school, Harvard law is renowned around the world for turning out the best and the brightest. If you want to be the best in your chosen field, then an ivy league school is definitely the best route to go, but most Colleges/Universities will teach you what you need to know. Just because you go to a state school doesn't mean you won't be successful in life.

[Yabby]

Don't get me wrong, they give amazing education (Above most i'm sure) but i think the big thing about going to those schools are all about networking. If you are at those schools you are ether rich or you have a high intelligence. It gets your foot in the door with high paying jobs because you go to school with the children that hire for those company's. Plus, like stated above, it looks amazing on paper because of the high standards/rejection rate of those schools.

[Holly Short]

Yes, good point.

The rejection is so high at most of those schools it's considered a big deal to even get in. No one at my HS really even tried, instead opting for schools like UCLA and others because those were hard to get into, but not as hard as the ivy league.

[Ramor]

Basically everyone in my AP math class from high school (myself and my best friend excluded) went to ivy league, two of them going to MIT which is pretty rare for a public high school, let alone a fairly small one from maine. I don't really get it either, personally I'm having way more fun and am enjoying myself a lot more than I know they are, but of course most of them are on the 'fast track' but I get the feeling that they're missing out on a fair amount of the college experience.

[Stiker]

Don't get me wrong, they give amazing education (Above most i'm sure) but i think the big thing about going to those schools are all about networking. If you are at those schools you are ether rich or you have a high intelligence. It gets your foot in the door with high paying jobs because you go to school with the children that hire for those company's. Plus, like stated above, it looks amazing on paper because of the high standards/rejection rate of those schools.

This.

My alma mater, Notre Dame, isn't Ivy League, but it is damn near thought of as one. The alumni networks for the school is beyond ridiculous and just having a ND degree landed me an interview with my current job.

However, a "top tier" school isn't the end-all-be-all. Sure it helps to have a big name on your diploma, but overall, you will be judged more on your professional career than the piece of paper you got nearly a decade ago.

I actually didn't even really consider the ND "brand" as the main reason for going, I just happened to fall in love with the campus after I made a visit and I felt it fit me well. I know it has helped a bit, but if I hated the school and my time there, I highly doubt I would even be networked into the alumni base like I am now.

tl;dr - As always, shit's situational.

[Antithesis]

Basically everyone in my AP math class from high school (myself and my best friend excluded) went to ivy league, two of them going to MIT which is pretty rare for a public high school, let alone a fairly small one from maine. I don't really get it either, personally I'm having way more fun and am enjoying myself a lot more than I know they are, but of course most of them are on the 'fast track' but I get the feeling that they're missing out on a fair amount of the college experience.

This is something I can agree upon. Granted, I probably wont be having the "college experience" (Something about Latin children not leaving home and staying with their parents [Long story]) but I am far more happy taking my time in college, making money working and enjoying my teen years. Money is great but its not the end all be all meaning of life.

[Weiing]

I had an experience similar to the OP. I went to a private boarding school in northern California, and most everyone applied to Ivy League...and the California equivalent, Stanford. However, I never saw the appeal of it so never applied.

I do agree that going to those schools is mainly for the networking opportunity and name recognition. Ultimately, like others have said, it is about what you want to specialize in/do after undergrad, as Ivy Leagues aren't the best at everything, surprisingly. The special thing about Ivy League colleges is the fact that there is a higher probability of more world renowned and leading professors in certain fields teaching and doing research there...but I guess that is included in networking.

[Byrthnoth]

I applied to and was accepted to several Ivy league schools for both undergrad and graduate education, but none of them offered me financial support while the local university offered me a free ride.

As a scientist/engineer in industry, the people who make hiring/firing decisions are generally very removed from the fields they're hiring/firing for. It doesn't matter how awesome your state university is at the subject you're interested in studying. The person hiring/firing will not know that, because they aren't in your field.
For instance, most places would hire someone who got a Chemical Engineering degree from Princeton over someone who got one from the University of Delaware. Does it matter that the University of Delaware works closely with local chemistry companies to feed qualified chemical engineers? No. The random HR person tasked with finding an appropriate candidate is going to choose the one with "better credentials." Aka coming from a school they recognize as good.

Going to an Ivy League school puts an unquestionable "+" onto your application to anything. How much it is worth depends on what you want to do. Despite the example I gave, getting an Ivy League degree and then going into industry is actually probably a waste of tuition money. The extra cost may actually be worth it in fields where looking/sounding smart and first impressions are important (Academia, Economics, Politics, etc).

[Daydreamer]

One thing that really made me want to punch a baby was when I was talking to my best friend's brother about colleges (He is a Senior this year in a high school.) When I told him why bother going to these expensive schools if you don't have the money nor the time to back it up? One of these few things he said was "Why does everyone accept mediocrity? I want to shoot for the stars and I want to make it." For some reason when he said that, it irked me in a way that made we want to punch his gut out until his face was blue.

I know this is going to cause a shit storm, but I must know. It seems as if you got angry at this guy because you took it as him calling you either lazy or mediocre???

I really hate to admit that ivy leagues may be worth it, but, just as an example - I've been looking into linguistics a lot lately. Like....a lot. And damn near everything I read somehow ends up going back to Standford, MIT, or Harvard. When they do reference professors from other schools usually those professors will mention something like "pinker's (Stanford) research lead me to the idea of....."

[Antithesis]

I know this is going to cause a shit storm, but I must know. It seems as if you got angry at this guy because you took it as him calling you either lazy or mediocre???

In way, I did feel like it was kind of a punch at me but I know he didn't mean it to insult me. I can understand people wanting to "shoot for the stars" and make it big time but when your definition of "shooting for the stars" means only select colleges in a nation are up-to-par and all others are, well not up-to-par it just really seems silly. It's probably obvious at this point I'm far more concerned about the ratio of the cost for college to money made than the prestige of an Ivy League college.

Side note, this quote always gets to me:

The financial advantages to self-education can’t be emphasized enough, either. When Matt Damon’s character in Good Will Hunting mocked the arrogant Harvard student, asking him why he spends tens of thousands of dollars to be told to read things he could read by choice in the library for free, he was on to something.

[MisterBob]

A friend of mine got into Priceton a few years ago. She actually calculated that based on 4 years of school she would be nearly half a million in debt just from tuition.


I think part of it has to do with specialization. MIT definitely has a better engineering and mathematics department than my school, Harvard law is renowned around the world for turning out the best and the brightest. If you want to be the best in your chosen field, then an ivy league school is definitely the best route to go, but most Colleges/Universities will teach you what you need to know. Just because you go to a state school doesn't mean you won't be successful in life.

Your friend is an idiot, Princeton is about 50k/year without any scholariships/aid. Assume another 10-20k for living expenses and whatnot, it's not going to add up to half a million unless you get the worst student loans in history.

Also, Tier 1/Ivy League schools get your foot in the door for jobs you can't get otherwise. You can bitch and moan about how it's just a "piece of paper", but the employment world doesn't see it that way.

[Tyche]

Going to an ivy league school in undergrad is a waste of money if you can go during your grad years. If you have a PhD from the Harvard business school, noone cares if you have a BA in English from (insert state school). I had a friend do his undergrad work at Northwestern (I know, not some "normal" state school) and is graduating from MIT next year. Could it be easier to transition into an Ivy League school if you do your undergrad work at an elite university? Eh, I guess so, but at that point I think it's more about your social connections.

[Sanoske]

Really you can sum it up in one word: Networking.

Ivy League doesn't necessarily get you a better education, I know plenty of people from Yale who graduated with degrees in Bio who know less about science than I do. (Anthro major...) In terms of knowledge and capability, an education will give you back what you put into it for the most part.

However, the massive network of "high profile" alumni and pulling power that an Ivy League name has just can't be replaced. Sad, but true.

[Melena]

Princeton is not a bad increase over some others. I believe Cal Berkley is in the 35-40k a year range. One of my Seargent's has a son in some college in Oregon and he's getting a 60% ride on football but would have been 40k a year otherwise, and this was a school I never heard of. If I was going into an exclusive or high competition field, I damn well would have pushed for a highly recognized and regarded school. You only get one shot at a first impression and the average amount of time spent looking at a resume when doing an initial purge of the list is about 5 seconds, your damn right it does matter.