BG Legal: Items left at my house.

[Ikith]

A "friend" of mine left a necklace at my house and wants it back. I was willing to give it back but is now making a huge deal about it and wanting me to take time off just to drop it off. I'm getting sick of this and right now I just want to stick it to em and say no screw you the necklace is mine.

I live in Washington and I know there's something about if an item remains at someones place of residence for a certain amount of time it is rightfully that persons. What is the time frame and any other details that should be shared?

[Gadritan]

I was kinda' wondering about something like this myself. My old guitar player left about $3k worth of his gear at my house over 6 months ago. He called me a few times the first month and said he'd be by in "a few minutes," to pick it up only to not show. I tried to contact him for 2 more months after that to no avail (leaving voice mail, txts, even facebook messages). Now it's been about 3 months since the last time I had any contact with him.

I'm just worried that if I sell it, he'll finally come around a week later or something and try to take legal action and idk where I am as far as the law is concerned.

[Effluo]

They left it, they can come get it. No way in hell would I take time off of my job to return something they left behind.

[Yuri-G]

not sure about ownership rights, but if they want it back they sure as fuck need to take that burden upon themselves. asking you to take time off to drop it off is hilariously misguided.

[Azull]

In both cases i would make a good faith effort to contact the person and set a deadline. In the 2nd case .. given the value of the items .. you should try other ways to get in touch with him be it via family, freinds, mutual contacts, etc. This is the age of the internet so unless he has completly dropped off the face of the earth you should be able to find him without very much effort.

Edit --- Look up your state/local abandoned property laws and follow what it saids to do

[Kwijiboe]

Tell him the times you will be home and if he isn't there, Maybe offer to ship it to him--if he pays you first. If he balks at all that, you've done everything (and more) to return his property to him. All you need is to prove is that you tried to return it to the owner, after that point, he no longer has a case.

[Headspace]

possession is 9/10ths the law

[Gadritan]

you should try other ways to get in touch with him be it via family, freinds, mutual contacts, etc. This is the age of the internet so unless he has completly dropped off the face of the earth you should be able to find him without very much effort.

I tried to contact him for 2 more months after that to no avail (leaving voice mail, txts, even facebook messages)

I tried exactly that. Left messages with him and his wife and never got any responses. Sent them double a few times in case they got lost. Neither one of them have ever replied to any VM, txt, or FB messages I've left, and we don't really have any mutual contacts.

[Valisk]

Funny. We just covered lost, mislaid, and abandoned property in my business law class last week. Since he is making an effort to retrieve the item (or asking you to do it) there isn't a time limit where it expires and is magically yours. If that was the case, many people would avoid a person until the statute of limitations was up and claim the property as theirs. As long as your "friend" is actively trying to make arrangements to collect his property then there isn't a time limit.

As far as Gadritan goes. You guys have made plans for the guy to pick it up and you've even gone as far as contacting him to let him know to come get his stuff. You also said you haven't spoken in over 3 months. You should check your state's (if you live in the US) common law on lost, mislaid, and abandoned property. At some point, it transitions from mislaid to abandoned if your friend decides he has no intentions of retrieving it. When that becomes the case, then it is rightfully yours. You should look into that.

[Gadritan]

You should look into that.

I've tried, but it's really tough to get a clear answer on it. I don't know enough about law to interpret what I've found online. I called the DA's office and got a rather cryptic answer as well, more or less telling me to get a lawyer (which I can't afford).

It's just really irritating because this shit is taking up massive amounts of space. It's been frustrating wasting my time and effort on it when he's dicked me around on it a few times too. He's incredibly wealthy, so I'm not sure if he just rather avoid me and say fuck it than coming and getting it. He kinda' split from the band on bad terms (not with me personally, but it was an awkward situation). I made it a point to show there were no hard feelings in the few times I talked to him after he split, but who knows. He's an odd character.

I just don't want to be the bad guy. I know I'd just about kill someone if they sold any of my gear, but I also know I wouldn't leave it at someone's house for 6 months if I gave a shit about it.

Don't misunderstand either. I don't need the money. I have 0 use for the gear and a lot of use for the space it's taking up, but it'd be pretty stupid to just trash something valuable. It's the monetary value that makes me nervous about doing anything with it as I know that can change what can be done legally.

[Cyn]

I've tried, but it's really tough to get a clear answer on it. I don't know enough about law to interpret what I've found online. I called the DA's office and got a rather cryptic answer as well, more or less telling me to get a lawyer (which I can't afford).

You could if you sold his shit.

[Gadritan]

Horse before cart etc.

[Cyn]

Seriously though, you know how much shit like that probably happens in Fayetteville? You could probably just call the cops and ask them if they'd even arrest you in that situation.

Edit: Eh, guess that wouldn't help you figure out if they could hit you with a civil suit.

[Cream Soda]

Don't be a dick.

Just tell him if he wants it to come get it and that you're not taking time out of your schedule to bring it to him.

Just keeping it though, is an asshole move.

Unrelated question: Are you African American?

[Cream Soda]

I was kinda' wondering about something like this myself. My old guitar player left about $3k worth of his gear at my house over 6 months ago. He called me a few times the first month and said he'd be by in "a few minutes," to pick it up only to not show. I tried to contact him for 2 more months after that to no avail (leaving voice mail, txts, even facebook messages). Now it's been about 3 months since the last time I had any contact with him.

I'm just worried that if I sell it, he'll finally come around a week later or something and try to take legal action and idk where I am as far as the law is concerned.

In your case, you're not free storage. Next time you contact him, let him know that he can either come pick it up within a reasonable time, agree to pay storage charges, or if property is not retrieved in a reasonable amount of time, you reserve the right to discard (The amount of time will vary upon state)

Edit: Keep all records of contact handy. If talk on the phone, record it, etc.

[Gadritan]

In your case, you're not free storage. Next time you contact him, let him know that he can either come pick it up within a reasonable time, agree to pay storage charges, or if property is not retrieved in a reasonable amount of time, you reserve the right to discard (The amount of time will vary upon state)

lol. That's exactly what I've done aside from giving him a specific date to pick it up and demanding storage fees. He won't answer the phone or replay to messages or anything at all. It's been here for 6 months and it's been 5 months since the last time he ever actually talked to me or responded to anything.

Also, lol @Fayettenam. I think you have to shoot someone to get arrested there. Even that's questionable.

[Cream Soda]

I'd just do a little research and find out exactly what's enough trying on your part to get a hold of him. Other than that, without replies of any sort, yo ushould be in the clear.

[Kellanved]

The general rule is that property is mislaid when the owner intentionally leaves it somewhere and then forgets it there. It is abandoned when the owner forms the intent to relinquish all rights in the property.

The Finders of mislaid property will not acquire title to that property against the true owner. The true owner has a superior claim. The finder only has a right to keep property that has been abandoned.

There are likely three issues involved, a cause of action for replevin, the statute of limitation to bring the action, and adverse possession.

You’re concerned whether you can claim good title to the property. Given the facts, you’d like be acquiring good title to the property by adverse possession. Without going into exhaustive details, adverse possession of personal property is when you possess another’s property in a manner that is exclusive, visible, continuous, and without the owner’s permission (hence “adverse”) for a period of time defined by statute of limitation. The true owner is then barred from bringing a cause of action for replevin.

Generally and depending on jurisdiction, there are at least three rules that have developed to govern when this statute of limitation starts to run.

First, the conversion rule starts the running of the statute of limitation when the property is wrongfully taken (“converted,” say the moment you sell it)

Second, the discovery rule starts the running of the statute of limitation when the true owner discovers or reasonably should have discovered the location of the property. (if action is not brought within the specified time following discovery or reasonable discovery = yours)

Third, the demand rule starts the running of the statute of limitation when the true owner demands the object and it is refused. (if action is not brought within the specified time, following demand and refusal = yours)

OP: Clearly the true owner has a superior claim to the item, and if he’s asking for it back it should be returned. However, you’re not under any particular obligation to make unreasonable efforts to return the property.

Not legal advise, but if you clearly communicate a refusal to return the property, and the true owner takes no legal action within the specified time depending on your jurisdiction, you could acquire the property by adverse possession I suppose.

Gadritan: In your case, the issue could be abandonment and adverse possessions (if you were to take actions satisfying the elements)

[Nephlite]

Unless said item was a gift to you, he could easily pull a receipt of purchase and take you to court. There, you could get smacked with some type of wrongful holding of property charge and end up getting sued, possibly loosing more money in the process. In the end, he asked YOU to do a favor for HIM, so the question of returning said item isn't under HIS terms but under YOUR convenience. If he doesn't like that then tell him till he makes arrangements out of his day, then he'll never get the item back (which covers you if you go to court, just make him aware of this stipulation via e-mail, telephone recording, etc).

[Valisk]

@Gadritan - I would keep all records of contact/attempted contact and simply sell the stuff. If he just so happens to try to claim the stuff after the fact, you can simply fork over any cash you see fit after deducting the standard cost of a local, air conditioned, indoor storage facility times however many months you sheltered his items.