Rosetta stone.

[altwight]

Any experience with the japanese portion of this program? My girlfriend and I plan on traveling to Japan as nurses in the not too distant future. We planned on taking lessons in school but I figure if I can just rip the program if it's viable I'd rather do that.

lawl typo'd rosetta

[Ketna]

I used it with limited success (only stopped because I am lazy), but then again I just got a copy from a friend to play around with, but it worked surprisingly well. If I was reading romanji versions of the words that I learned, about a year ago, I am pretty sure I could still know what was going on.

Just be aware that the way Rosetta Stone works is like teaching a child how to speak, so you'll learn vocabulary with pictures and how the word sounds, and eventually how the word looks, and then how to speak it correctly.

The friend I borrowed the program from figures he can speak/read Japanese as well as a 6 year old currently which is enough to travel. But he is very focused and used a lot of other books and learning techniques after the went though RS.

GL with a new language.

[bungiefan]

It seems better as a support to a class than just something to go through on your own. I have a version 2 (before they started using registration codes) set of discs, which only went up to level 2 then (it's either level 3 or 5 for Japanese now). I also found an Ultimate disc on Demonoid which is one DVD (doesn't require installation) with all the courses version 2 had, that runs on Mac and Windows. What I've tried of version 3, the lessons for courses 1 and 2 haven't changed in content much, and now version 4 is out. I've been able tyo get downloaded copies to work on Win XP, but they won't work in Win7 for me.

You really want to run the program with writing in kana or kanji. The romaji isn't very useful in the long run, and you don't want to get used to reading it all the time.

[Viq]

This advice comes from my experience using Rosetta Stone to try and learn Korean initially. As Korean and Japanese are both fairly similar in grammar and sentence structure, I'm sure you can apply this to the Japanese version as well. The further a language is from your native language, the less useful RS will be for you. There are very basic grammatical concepts, such as topic and subject marking particle, that don't exist in English and would be more or less impossible to learn via RS. If you want to use it as practice to familiarize yourself with reading hiragana or as a decent vocab builder then you can get some use out of it. If you expect it to be your main source of being able to actually speak, even basic things, in a language like Japanese then you will find that it is not sufficient.

[Cream Soda]

I didn't have much luck w/ the Korean one myself

[Ksandra]

It seems better as a support to a class than just something to go through on your own. I have a version 2 (before they started using registration codes) set of discs, which only went up to level 2 then (it's either level 3 or 5 for Japanese now). I also found an Ultimate disc on Demonoid which is one DVD (doesn't require installation) with all the courses version 2 had, that runs on Mac and Windows. What I've tried of version 3, the lessons for courses 1 and 2 haven't changed in content much, and now version 4 is out. I've been able tyo get downloaded copies to work on Win XP, but they won't work in Win7 for me.

You really want to run the program with writing in kana or kanji. The romaji isn't very useful in the long run, and you don't want to get used to reading it all the time.

^ this. If you plan on going not too far from now then I wouldn't rely on RS alone. Not only because it is severely limiting towards the written aspect of kanji, but also the vocabulary isn't going to help for work-related stuff. (I use it now and then to try to brush up shit I forget, and level one's vocab is mostly focused on food, animals, family).

I will say if you really want to avoid a class I recommend getting these textbooks and going through them pages by page;

http://www.amazon.com/Invitation-Con.../dp/0072354283

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Workbook-accom...ref=pd_sim_b_1

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Yookoso-Contin...4118678&sr=1-2

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Workbook-Labor...ref=pd_sim_b_4

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg


Downside is a lot of the lessons are focused on talking like a college student (since these are college textbooks). So some of the vocab will be useless for you (ie. chalkboard, sit down). But it teaches you a lot of good beginning phrases for those learning Japanese that Rosetta stone takes too long to give( if at all, I never did all of them). Ie. right in the beginning it teaches you thinkgs like "How do you say X in English?" "Please repeat" "Please slow down" and so on.


The workbooks are completely excellent in teaching kanji and help in practicing your writing. I don't think any other book can top it, and it coincides with the text. What's great is it slowly switches from romani to hiragana to kanji in the text as you learn them all in the workbook. Technically, if you master these two books then you are basically fluent in Japanese (though I'd recommend getting a Japanese dictionary and constantly keep learning more and more vocab).

Even though I have the RS versions, I still find myself going back to these textbooks (and my dictionary) more often than RS to relearn shit.

[Viq]

Was going to edit this in, but I'll just make another post. If you're going as nurses, and will stay longer at least 3-4 months, then look into what universities are near your apartment and/or workplace. Just about every university should offer part-time conversation classes for relatively little money. Learning in that environment, in Japanese from a native speaker, will certainly yield great results. Since you will also actually be in Japan, making friends either at work or through a local language exchange program (again, a local university's international office should be able to provide info on how to find one of these programs) will give you invaluable practice that really is not possible through any learning method that doesn't involve direct contact with a native speaker. I personally studied Korean for about 6 months on my own back home. It took about 2 weeks of classes and being around native speakers for me to completely blow beyond everything I had learned previous to coming here. It gets said every time a language thread comes up, but it bears repeating: There's absolutely no substitute for immersion and contact with native speakers.

[bungiefan]

^ this. If you plan on going not too far from now then I wouldn't rely on RS alone. Not only because it is severely limiting towards the written aspect of kanji, but also the vocabulary isn't going to help for work-related stuff. (I use it now and then to try to brush up shit I forget, and level one's vocab is mostly focused on food, animals, family).

I will say if you really want to avoid a class I recommend getting these textbooks and going through them pages by page;

http://www.amazon.com/Invitation-Con.../dp/0072354283

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Workbook-accom...ref=pd_sim_b_1

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Yookoso-Contin...4118678&sr=1-2

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Workbook-Labor...ref=pd_sim_b_4

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg

Those are actually the textbooks I used in the 3 years of Japanese I took about 6 years ago at University of Alaska.

[Hyan]

Anki + heisig's method for kanji + tae kim's guide to japanese (grammar) is absolutely fantastic combo. It's hard to not learn using them.

It's disgusting how simplified the normally used methods for learning are (during classes). "Treat 'wa' particle as the 'be' verb!"...sure it may help at first, but you'll be more and more confused as you move along. You don't even grasp the basics but will be taught more and more difficult grammar structures anyway.

[Ksandra]

Those are actually the textbooks I used in the 3 years of Japanese I took about 6 years ago at University of Alaska.

haha ya they are the ones I used in college too. I think they are the standard. I love them though and still have them/use them.

I will say though a class is best. If you're learning on your own you have no one to correct you. You could easily get stuck mispronouncing something without ever knowing you're doing it....lol in that book there are mini dialogues that our teacher would make us do. We'd have to study them for hw, then do a part in front of the class with another student so he could check for fluency/pronunciation. I guess I learned a word wrong once and said "rape" on accident which made the teacher die laughing. On top of making sure you stay on task with it.

[Hyan]

I completely disagree. Maybe those books are something else though.

Classes can be useful for practicing speaking but that's it imo. It's just not enough. Scratching the surface at best.

[Ksandra]

I completely disagree. Maybe those books are something else though.

Classes can be useful for practicing speaking but that's it imo. It's just not enough. Scratching the surface at best.

those books are awesome, dunno how on earth you get scratching the surface from it.

I'm glad I took the class, I don't think I would have gotten as far on my own.

as viq said, it's hugely important to be able to talk to a native speaker. you won't get that learning on your own.

[Hyan]

Its more important to be able to read and write the language. You won't learn that in a class. And, imo, speaking can only come into picture once you can actually produce words and understand them at certain effectiveness.

[Ksandra]

Its more important to be able to read and write the language. You won't learn that in a class.

wut?

[Hyan]

You should be able to recognize roughly 3000 kanji and the thousands of compound words that they create to be able to read the language. Even the methods teachers tell you to study them are inefficient at best, huge waste of time at worst. The way Japanese study them is not most efficient for us.

[Necronus]

I started level 1 of Japanese and then kinda came to a halt for the past few weeks (which definitely doesn't help) ... but even right this second I can hear the darn Rosetta Stone phrases echoing in my head and occasionally find myself saying them at random. That wouldn't be a bad thing if it wasn't for the fact that level one is mostly unrelated words and some basic structure. I definitely see the plus sides to it and the areas where I'm gonna need other sources of education, but man if that shit doesn't stick in your head.

So here I sit hearing that dudes voice say "Sayouuuuuuunara" (I get that they want to annunciate, but man he drags that out), and other random things like "jyuusu", "aruite imasu", "tabete imasu", "oyoide imasu". Basically right now I can only tell a boy/girl/man/woman that a red/yellow/blue/green/white dog/cat/horse is eating/walking/swimming ... just circle one word from each group.

[Ksandra]

Even the methods teachers tell you to study them are inefficient at best, huge waste of time at worst.

I'm curious as to what you think these methods are.

And more and more modern day shit has furigana on it, you aren't out of luck if you don't know all 3000.

[Hyan]

I'm curious as to what you think these methods are.

And more and more modern day shit has furigana on it, you aren't out of luck if you don't know all 3000.

Stop making excuses. Furigana is for kids.

The method = learn everything at once. The meanings, kun/omyomi, writing, maybe even compounds, the way the Japanese kids do. Which a) makes no sense (the order at which every kanji is learnt is not efficient) and b) is a huge burden for us foreigners.

[Ksandra]

Stop making excuses. Furigana is for kids.

The method = learn everything at once. The meanings, kun/omyomi, writing, maybe even compounds, the way the Japanese kids do. Which a) makes no sense (the order at which every kanji is learnt is not efficient) and b) is a huge burden for us foreigners.

So you're saying you failed at the class? Just because that method doesn't work for you doesn't make it an ineffective method. And no furigana isn't just limited to kids. It is not a burden either, that method worked extremely well for me and others.

I can't imagine trying to learn it without associating it to anything (ie meanings)

[edit] to clarify, I am not saying furigana is fucking used everywhere or anything, just it's starting to show up more and more up especially on uncommon words and isn't JUST for kids.

Ie via wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furigana

In works aimed at adult Japanese speakers, furigana may be used on a word written in uncommon kanji; in the mass media, they are generally used on words containing non-Jōyō kanji.

Furigana commonly appear alongside kanji names and their romanizations on signs for railway stations, even if the pronunciation of the kanji is commonly known. Furigana also appear often on maps to show the pronunciation of unusual place names.

In Japan, by law, newspapers using kanji outside the jōyō kanji list must annotate them with furigana.[1]

[warc]

Rosetta stone can help teach you some pronounciation, some vocab, but it's grammar is severly lacking. Feel free to try it out, can find it for free anywhere basically. Repeating what others have said; Rosetta stone is a supplement, not a primary source. Since you are looking for help with Japanese, I've been using this site: http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/complete

It starts out with basics like hira/katakana and goes into basic grammar but gets complicated enough that people studying for the JLPT can use it as a reference. Its still a work in progress and I'm not sure how frequently it gets updated.