BG Grammar Police: Unnecessary, Commas

[wyrmtung]

Need help in a debate with a coworker. He claims he has an English degree but his English is worse than high school level. Unfortunately, he is writing up some documentation for my project.

I successfully got him to agree on a lot of his errors but there is one that he does not feel is an error: He is putting unnecessary commas in some of his sentences.

Here is a sample sentence with the nouns replaced with generic nouns to protect the innocent:

This feature in ABC Software allows the end user to review specific changes, made by a specific user.

Basically, he put a comma between a modifying phrase ("made by a specific user") and the object it is modifying ("specific changes.") I told him that just because he pauses when he reads a sentence aloud (which was his "proof" by the way) doesn't mean he has to add a comma to it. There are grammar rules and he is violating them.

Unfortunately, I'm a buttload of years out of school and I cannot recall exactly which rule(s) he is violating.

BG, help a brotha out with some grammar hammer justice.

[Cream Soda]

lol, that nigga dumb

[Akiyama]

Can you not go behind him and correct the shit yourself without him knowing?

[Ksandra]

There are grammar rules and he is violating them.

http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/607/02/

4. Do not use commas to set off essential elements of the sentence, such as clauses beginning with that (relative clauses). That clauses after nouns are always essential. That clauses following a verb expressing mental action are always essential.

Examples of other essential elements (no commas):

Students who cheat only harm themselves.

The baby wearing a yellow jumpsuit is my niece.

The candidate who had the least money lost the election.

The software doesn't just allow the end user to review specific changes of anything, it allows them to review specific changes made by a specific user. Making the ending phrase an essential element to the understanding of the sentence (aka it is not just extra information you don't really need). So, no comma should be there.

[Yugl]

You could say he's making an error by attempting a topicalization but his approach was backwards. His approach is backwards because his sentence would suggest that a specific user made the feature rather than making specific changes. I assume the latter is what he wants to say. Since he wants to say that you can check specific changes made by a specific user, you either need a second comma and a conjunction with a second point or to remove the comma.

[Pirian]

I can see where your coworker is coming from. The way you have the sentence sounds weird without the comma. Without the comma it should look something like this:

This feature in ABC Software allows the end user to review the specific changes that are made by a specific user.

[Kohan]

They're also being redundant, as they're using the word "specific" twice, and in close proximity.

Also, my comma usage is superior, and they're an idiot.

[Greatguardian]

They're also being redundant, as they're using the word "specific" twice, and in close proximity.

nuh uh.

The word specific is not one that can only be used at specific times, in specific places, or with specific intentions. Proximity is not a problem so long as the adjective addresses two different subjects, and it does.

[Pirian]

They're also being redundant, as they're using the word "specific" twice, and in close proximity.

Also, my comma usage is superior, and they're an idiot.

It's an adjective describing two different things <.<;

[Resin]

lol, that nigga dumb

^

[Yugl]

I can see where your coworker is coming from. The way you have the sentence sounds weird without the comma. Without the comma it should look something like this:

In that case, "that are" is unnecessary text because a verb follows.

So while "Cars that are red are bad" would not make sense if you removed "that are", the sentence would make sense if you said "Cars that are called red are bad" or "Cars that are painted red are bad" and removed "that are."

[Pirian]

In that case, "that are" is unnecessary text because a verb follows.

So while "Cars that are red are bad" would not make sense if you removed "that are", the sentence would make sense if you said "Cars that are called red are bad" or "Cars that are painted red are bad" and removed "that are."

It is not unnecessary because "that" is acting as a conjunction in the sentence I proposed. In your sentences, "that" is acting as an adjective describing what it is that is being described.

Spoiler: show

[Greatguardian]

I see nothing wrong with "This feature in ABC Software allows the end user to review specific changes made by a specific user", personally.

[Yugl]

I'm having trouble seeing the conjuncts you propose, but whatever.

[SephYuyX]

Is he using MS Word, to type this?
If it isnt correcting him, then he's correct.

[Pirian]

I'm having trouble seeing the conjuncts you propose, but whatever.

Here, just so I have the sentence fresh for you to look at instead of having to scroll back up for it:

This feature in ABC Software allows the end user to review the specific changes that are made by a specific user.

Without a comma the sentence isn't specific on what noun the adjective "made" is describing. Is it describing what the "user" is doing, or is it describing the "changes"? It's obvious when we speak the sentence, but when writing, it is not so specific. By adding "that are", you are separating the two clauses of "specific changes" and "specific user", and the adjectives describing each of them, respectively.

[Greatguardian]

It helps that made is not an adjective.

[Pirian]

It helps that made is not an adjective.

Ugh, yes it is.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/defini...gion=us&q=made

[Greatguardian]

You realize that entry is describing two different uses of the word made, right? The first use is the past or past participle of make, the second use is as an adjective in conjunction with a second word (eg, handmade).

[Greatguardian]

The past participle of make is a verb because make is a verb.