Minimum Wage?

[Coren]

Just read this, and was curious what others think:
http://www.epi.org/publication/ib341...-minimum-wage/

As a liberal, I support the idea that if you work a full time job, you shouldn't have to live in a cardboard box eating Ramen noodles every day for dinner (I'm fairly certain that republicans think that if you aren't in the 1%, you aren't trying, and you deserve to live in a ditch). As it stands, if you work 40 hours a week making minimum wage, you make a total income of around $15,000 (ish). That assumes you don't work overtime, and work 40 hours a week for 52 weeks.

I think that $15k is ridiculously low to try maintain shelter, food, etc, especially if you have kids or other dependents. Therefore, in theory, increasing minimum wage sounds like a fantastic idea, at least on the surface.

The question then is this: does minimum wage actually help?

The most common argument I hear is this: If you raise the price of minimum wage, staples will go up accordingly in price. A lot higher percentage of a min wage worker's paycheck is going to pay for milk, bread, etc. And all of things will go up substantially if you raise minimum wage. So in effect, the poor people aren't any farther along, but everybody above them pays more in food costs across the board, effectively screwing everybody in the middle class and below.

Assuming raising the min wage isn't a good idea, what is a good way to maintain a standard of living for everybody in the country without jacking the prices on everything? It's not like the country as a whole can't afford to take care of everybody (among other things, there's more than enough empty, foreclosed-on houses for every homeless person, and we grow enough food to feed the entire world, we're just dicks about it). I think that most people *want* to work for a living, horror stories of "welfare queens" notwithstanding. It's just that you have to work 60 hours a week at a minimum wage job to even get into the 30k/yr range. Why bother doing all that damn work when you can still barely make ends meet. It literally pays better to sit home having kids and letting the government pay you to raise them.

Anyway, I'd like to know what the rejects here think about it. :D

[hey]

It wouldn't affect prices that much. Those that still have (minimum wage) jobs would be better off with a higher minimum wage. It would certainly increase prices, since businesses would have to spend more, they'd also have to charge more to cover those expenses, but probably not proportionally to the min wage increase.

The bigger problem with minimum wage is that it causes unemployment.

[Salodin]

Why does raising the minimum wage increase the price of staples? Milk and the like shouldn't raise up any more then they normally would with inflation, its not like poor families are gonna start buying two gallons of milk at a time instead of one.

[Coren]

It wouldn't affect prices that much. Those that still have (minimum wage) jobs would be better off with a higher minimum wage. It would certainly increase prices, since businesses would have to spend more, they'd also have to charge more to cover those expenses, but probably not proportionally to the min wage increase.

The bigger problem with minimum wage is that it causes unemployment.

We pay our inexperienced techs around $9/hr as it is, so we wouldn't have to raise their pay too much. I would feel bad paying minimum wage though, whereas at the moment I feel like I'm paying them at least better than they'd make flipping burgers. There is a finite amount of money to pay them though, and that directly depends on the number of customers that walk in the door, and the only other option is to raise rates.

[Coren]

Why does raising the minimum wage increase the price of staples? Milk and the like shouldn't raise up any more then they normally would with inflation, its not like poor families are gonna start buying two gallons of milk at a time instead of one.

People that work on farms make minimum wage, for example. Store shelf stockers make minimum wage. Etc etc.

Staples (like milk, bread, etc) will go up by a certain percentage, because it costs more to make it and get it to a store shelf

[Meresgi]

Why does raising the minimum wage increase the price of staples? Milk and the like shouldn't raise up any more then they normally would with inflation, its not like poor families are gonna start buying two gallons of milk at a time instead of one.

Because the companies still gotta make dem billions, so they jack the prices on everything up because they are paying the lowly servants more to produce their product. That 3rd house in the Hamptons doesnt pay for itself.

[hey]

We pay our inexperienced techs around $9/hr as it is, so we wouldn't have to raise their pay too much. I would feel bad paying minimum wage though, whereas at the moment I feel like I'm paying them at least better than they'd make flipping burgers. There is a finite amount of money to pay them though, and that directly depends on the number of customers that walk in the door, and the only other option is to raise rates.

Which is another reason minimum wage doesn't make much sense: almost everyone makes more than it, other than teenagers, and others who can live just fine on $7/hr.

[Ksandra]

People that work on farms make minimum wage, for example. Store shelf stockers make minimum wage. Etc etc.

Staples (like milk, bread, etc) will go up by a certain percentage, because it costs more to make it and get it to a store shelf

One the one hand, there is the rule of thought that if people are making more they will spend more on some of the staples that they have avoided because of cost. ie. isn't there studies that show poor people tend to be fatter because healthy foods are more expensive? (not the only reason obviously, but there is something to be said about that) More sales should help a little, but it wouldn't be a complete trade off.

Because the companies still gotta make dem billions, so they jack the prices on everything up because they are paying the lowly servants more to produce their product. That 3rd house in the Hamptons doesnt pay for itself.

However here is the real root of the problem. Unless we find a way to curb the amount the people at the top are getting, they will continue to raise prices because they have no desire to cut their paychecks for those lower than them.

[Psion]

I still feel the solution is to make it so theres a % cap on how much money the top of a company can make over the lowest paid worker. Like 3000% of lowest paid worker, or 4000% or something, which would put CEO pay more in line with the rest of the world. Making a salary equivilent to $240 an hour and want to bump that up to $250 an hour? Fine by us, but you also have to raise the pay of the lowest paid worker to 8.33 an hour also. That way higher profits in a company translates to higher pay for the rest of the company, not just the CEO.

Obviously there would have to be other adjustments, such as defining pay so that CEOs cant get their way around it with semantics such as gifts or stocks or the like, but i think it's ridiculous that CEOs in our country make up to 300 times more than our lowest paid workers when the rest of the world is a tenth of that.

[Sera]

we need to get away from a 'minimum wage' and start thinking about it differently. should be a 'living wage' -- ie: the wage that allows a person to live comfortably in the area in exchange for full time work.

[test123]

Minimum wage is a job killer. There is a lot of start ups that could really benefit from low initial salaries, even struggling small businesses could keep afloat without it. If a homeless person wants to do small jobs paying 3-5$/hr, why ban it?

[Kanriel]

Which is another reason minimum wage doesn't make much sense: almost everyone makes more than it, other than teenagers, and others who can live just fine on $7/hr.

At my job, which admittedly is a pizza shop, only the 3 CSR's and part-time (as in 6 hours a week) cooks are teenagers. Our drivers are mid-20's usually and our full time cook is mid 40's. And everyone makes minimum wage aside from the managers (new shift managers start at $9/hour). Granted the drivers make loads more than minimum wage, but the fact that our 40 something cook who is a badass makes minimum wage is embarrassing.

Though the root of the issue, imo, is how much CEO's get paid. We would need to limit pay to them to make raising the minimum wage matter. Of course, the issue right now is that with the combination of outsourcing and technology, there are less jobs to be worked, so there is an abundance of applicants which drives wages down since people are more desperate.

[test123]

You need to realize that in a free market with high unemployment, employers can dump wages to minimum simply because there is a large supply of labor. Fix Unemployment and you will get higher salaries.

[Kanriel]

You need to realize that in a free market with high unemployment, employers can dump wages to minimum simply because there is a large supply of labor. Fix Unemployment and you will get higher salaries.

And how do you possibly fix unemployment? As I stated, outsourcing and technology has reduced the need for so many jobs, especially when we've essentially doubled our workforce with the feminist movement.

[test123]

And how do you possibly fix unemployment?

From the top of my head:
Deregulation, toss out minimum wage, take away income tax, end the fed which props up banks and Gov to do stupid things, end foreign wars which serves no purpose, toss out illegals, stop subsidizing, stop foreign aid, and give more power to the States.

[Kanriel]

From the top of my head:
Deregulation, toss out minimum wage, take away income tax, end the fed which props up banks and Gov to do stupid things, end foreign wars which serves no purpose, toss out illegals, stop subsidizing, stop foreign aid, and give more power to the States.

Can you show me any data where a company has created jobs just because they can, even if they don't need them at all?

[test123]

They expand their work force when they see potential for profit. For example where I work, there is a ton of potential out there, we just need more people to do the job, so we are always hiring and expanding.

[Kanriel]

They expand their work force when they see potential for profit. For example where I work, there is a ton of potential out there, we just need more people to do the job, so we are always hiring and expanding.

Do you always hire people who are unemployed? Do you never take away from someone else's business? How do we know your business expansion creates jobs? What if all your business does is expand a company by 10 employees but bankrupt a company with 15?

[test123]

I think your perception is not where it should be. You always try to find a negative outcome for whatever I say.

There is a big cake out there full of money. And everyone can go grab a slice. Sure some workhorses can grab twice a big slice then somebody else since they put in more work.

You believe that the rich which takes the biggest slices can do so because they aren't regulated enough. I believe that if everyone was on the same competing playground i.e no government favors then the cake will eventually be split evenly.

I agree that with today's situation where Government picks winners and losers there is no even playground, and it has to be fixed for things to work out.

[Nevex]

If you can afford a PC and an internet connection to make this thread, your wage is more than enough.