Tiamat's int?

[Wizrow]

Working backwards on the calculating magic damage formula and hitting a burst II for 700 damage it would seem tiamat's int hovers somewhere between 200 and 210.

My question is, has anyone does any tests on this?

Are there any better methods to figure out a mobs int?

Thanks for any feedback.

[aurik]

Did you remember to factor in the 50% spell damage reduction on Tiamat? Because 200 seems awfully high.

If you post your work, people can help critique it and spot any mistakes or omissions.

[Suiram]

I tried once to figure out Tiamat and Jorm's INT and whether or not their damage reduction was MDB or damage -%, but with the cumulative magic resistance it makes basically any data you get suspect unless it's sitting around unclaimed and you run up and ES-Burst II it and then get tractored, wait 10 min and ES-Thunder IV or something. If you manage to do that, please do post here with your INT and MAB and merits and make sure it's a game day of an element unrelated to the spell you cast, etc.

[aurik]

I'm of the opinion that the magic-induced MDB effect wears off pretty fast. Last Saturday my ls did a aeriel-manaburn ouryu, and whenever he flew (after 2 minutes of sleeping on the ground) the first few Bliz4s did ~460ish damage, and that initial damage didn't get noticeably worse as the fight went on.

[Suiram]

I'd agree but my point was more that you can't be certain that it has completely worn off especially if it wears off in stages as it seems to. Since the main point of why I tried before was to determine if they have MDB or magic damage -% the exact values you get are pretty important. I tried yelling at people not to nuke or use diabolos for a few minutes and even then I couldn't make the numbers work.

[Jeryhn]

I tried once to figure out Tiamat and Jorm's INT and whether or not their damage reduction was MDB or damage -%...

I'm pretty sure their natural resistance to magic is Magic Damage -50%, and not MDB. Damage from Diabolos' Nether Blast is exactly halved when no other magic attacks have been made.

That and I'm not entirely sure Nether Blast is even effected by MDB, although I haven't tested this. I've never noticed Diabolos doing less damage on Aerns, for example, when they use their Shell TP ability. But then again, I haven't exactly been looking for it.

[Suiram]

Well, the whole reason for this is that I had always thought it was damage taken -% as well, but then the JP page aurik translated which became the foundation for the wiki page said essentially that surprisingly it was MDB and not damage -%. However, investigating some of the claims that were made on the JP site that went against the common NA understanding, as many of them were wrong (additional WSs in a SC giving +0.2 bonus to MB, day/weather bonuses being capped at 1.3) as were right (double weather bonus being +.25 instead of +.2, etc), so the point was to see who is right.

If you want to test if Nether Blast ignores MDB, use it on an Aura Pot, since they seem to have a 50% magic damage reduction in addition to an MDB+12. Shell is magic damage -% anyway and not MDB, unless Aern shell is special. Also I hadn't thought about this before but next time someone fights Tiamat or Jormungund on BLU you could use 1000 needles, since that ignores MDB but not damage -%.

[Judai]

good luck landing 1k Needles on a Grand Wyrm!

[Awoir]

good luck landing 1k Needles on a Grand Wyrm!

/BLM

or doesn't that work with 1k needles? o;

[Jeryhn]

good luck landing 1k Needles on a Grand Wyrm!

/BLM

or doesn't that work with 1k needles? o;

It does.

Elemental Seal 1k Needles will work for testing purposes.

[hasdrbal]

Working backwards on the calculating magic damage formula and hitting a burst II for 700 damage it would seem tiamat's int hovers somewhere between 200 and 210.

Isnt magic damage resistance MND based?

[Takeno]

Working backwards on the calculating magic damage formula and hitting a burst II for 700 damage it would seem tiamat's int hovers somewhere between 200 and 210.

Isnt magic damage resistance MND based?

Run!

[Izzy]

Working backwards on the calculating magic damage formula and hitting a burst II for 700 damage it would seem tiamat's int hovers somewhere between 200 and 210.

Isnt magic damage resistance MND based?

I believe resistance is, but total maximum damage is not. Which is why when you cast Burn on a mob, then nuke, it will do more damage. (correct me if i'm wrong)

Mob more mnd = more chance of giving you 1/2 resist
Mob more int = less chance of you getting 1/2 resist, but less max damage

(again, correct me if i'm wrong)

[OmegaKnight]

Working backwards on the calculating magic damage formula and hitting a burst II for 700 damage it would seem tiamat's int hovers somewhere between 200 and 210.

Isnt magic damage resistance MND based?

I believe resistance is, but total maximum damage is not. Which is why when you cast Burn on a mob, then nuke, it will do more damage. (correct me if i'm wrong)

Mob more mnd = more chance of giving you 1/2 resist
Mob more int = less chance of you getting 1/2 resist, but less max damage

(again, correct me if i'm wrong)

As far as I know MND doesn't do anything for resistance... except for maybe MND based enfeebs. INT down on someone however will make them take more dmg from nukes.

[Izzy]

As far as I know MND doesn't do anything for resistance... except for maybe MND based enfeebs. INT down on someone however will make them take more dmg from nukes.

Yea, I never actually cast shock on anything unless its a wall in assault, so i never was really sure. When i'm trying to get e-peen i burn > stun > bind > nuke flan to see how much damage i can actually do. That's how I knew the INT part lol.

[Nerull]

Working backwards on the calculating magic damage formula and hitting a burst II for 700 damage it would seem tiamat's int hovers somewhere between 200 and 210.

Isnt magic damage resistance MND based?

wow... deja vu from 2003...

[fantasticdan]

I believe resistance is, but total maximum damage is not. Which is why when you cast Burn on a mob, then nuke, it will do more damage. (correct me if i'm wrong)

Mob more mnd = more chance of giving you 1/2 resist
Mob more int = less chance of you getting 1/2 resist, but less max damage

(again, correct me if i'm wrong)

All player castable magic is stat vs. same stat calculation for accuracy, damage, and potency. For example, elemental magic "nukes" are all player int vs. mob int. Paralyze, slow, banish, etc are mnd vs. mnd. Songs are chr vs. chr.

There may be some mob TP attacks that have weird stat checks, maybe even blue magic, but it is nearly impossible to tell. However, I can tell you for certain, mnd will not do anything when being hit by an elemental nuke.

[Suiram]

For resists it could be INT vs. INT, it could be INT vs. MND, or it could be neither and the only stuff that matters is your skill in the magic + generic magic accuracy bonuses vs. your targets innate resistance due to level + any additional element-specific resistances.

People tend to assume it's INT vs. MND because they're making the natural extrapolation from the easily verifiable melee analogs, STR vs. VIT and DEX vs. AGI. Others assume that since the potency of elemental magic and black-magic enfeebles are a function of INT vs. INT and white-magic enfeebles MND vs. MND that accuracy would be the same. It's one of those things people seem to just decide and then use their anecdotal experience to back up their assumptions, on both sides. Really nobody knows until someone wants to do a significantly long and involved test of the whole thing.

[XcelscioN]

I tried once to figure out Tiamat and Jorm's INT and whether or not their damage reduction was MDB or damage -%, but with the cumulative magic resistance it makes basically any data you get suspect unless it's sitting around unclaimed and you run up and ES-Burst II it and then get tractored, wait 10 min and ES-Thunder IV or something. If you manage to do that, please do post here with your INT and MAB and merits and make sure it's a game day of an element unrelated to the spell you cast, etc.

Was the only BLM at Tiamat last night for the first 30%, so I got to play around with my spells without them getting gimped by other blms. Thunder 4s always landed for 476, and Burst 2s for 634. No weather/day that would mess with Thunder spells, 5 Lightning potency merits, 72+27 INT, and +21 MAB. Hope this helps.

[Iresire]

Quite some time ago, I stumbled across a JP excel spread sheet with the information you seek. It'd be a fairly good starting point as it contains INT, MDB, and Magic Damage -% for various types of monsters, including HNM. It does not include the ToAU HNM or even Bahamut.

I can't tell you how accurate this information is, but I imagine this is a really good starting point.