Improving Guillotine + parser questions in general

[Kaope]

Hi, noobdrk here need some advice for ws setups ^^; Usually I stick with the meat build and use this set up:

Weapon: P sickle
Ammo: Bomblet
Head: AF+1
Neck: Gorget
Earrings: Brutal/Assault
Body: Haub/Heca
Hands: AF+1/Alky
Rings: Rajas/Sniper
Back: Forager
Waist: Potent Belt
Legs: Black Cuisses
Feet: Heca

Now, the questions are:

1) If I were to use sushi build instead, what should I focus on? Or should I just stick with the same setup I'm using atm?

2) According to my last parser data, (in Thickets vs mamools) using meats I had 70% ACC (more or less) as opposed when I ate sushi, I had 90% ACC. Does this mean that when I ate sushi, I'd have 90% rate of full hits guillotine and near 70% when I ate meats?

3) What's the acceptable hit rate when you want to use meat build? 80%? I feel that my ACC is still lacking ><;

4) Feel free to comment on my current ws setup ^^;

PS: I don't have any ground hnmls...
Thank you in advance.

[Tulun]

1) You'd really have to play around. See if you can sacrifice some acc for more attack; but tbh, your build is about right (outside of getting Adaberk). I'd use af+1 feet, since MND also modifies Guillotine dmg. I'd exchange the Sniper's for a +5 str ring. I personally also use af+1 hands.

2) As far as I understand it... your chance of hitting all 4 hits in guillotine with 70% acc: (0.7)^4 = 24.01%. Chance of hitting all 4 hits with 90% acc = 65.61%. with 95% acc, it's 81.4%.

3) I'd probably go no lower than 85% ever... but getting over 90% acc will give you very consistant Guillotines.

4) You have the right idea with maximizing STR. You'll probably have to use Sushi with that build in a lot of merit camps: at Azouph, you can easily get away with just using Meat. Otherwise I'd stick to Sushi. Esspecially if you are dipping below 70% acc: You'd have to sacrifice STR gear in WS without question if you wanted to use meat with that hit rate. You could test it with meat + simply using Optical hat + Abyss Cape (if you have one), and see how the numbers compare to sushi + str gear.


Edit: It should also be noted that Mamools can very easily skew accuracy results, because of Warm-Up, and due to commonly having to pull Thief mobs. (Ninja can get bad too with Warm Up on).

[goshtin]

I made a thread about this on KI recently.. we came to the conclusion


acc > att/str

screw mind

this is my set up

neck "Snow Gorget"
head "Chaos burgeonet +1"
body "Hauberk +1"
hands "Tarasque mitts +1"
legs "Black cuisses"
feet "Chaos sollerets +1"
waist "Potent belt"
back "Abyss cape!"
ear1 "Brutal earring"
ear2 "Abyssal earring"
ring1 "Raja's ring"
ring2 "Flame ring"
ranged "Fire bomblet"

I'd change af+1 to heca, if I had it
this is drk/sam btw, but I'd use it on every /job

ur gear seems fine, but dont use alkys.. too much cost on dex. I think thats -3 acc

[_Zoolander_]

Was curious myself what the results were regarding the Relic cape (which would come out to 14ish acc?) vs foragers. As above said, ACC is very important on Guilltine. Just wondering if anyone did some testing regarding such, especially with diff foods.

[Duwie]

Abyss cape with 2 str rings doesnt make much sense to me, I'd go with foragers and acc ring/rajas or 2nc acc ring. A tip for increasing your numbers on ws but maintaining your consistency is to have different ws macros. Having 1 ws macro for puks and/or weaker mamools and another for skoffins/tougher mamools boosts your avrg a bit because you wont need as much acc for some mobs as you do for others.

op - what are you subbing? if you're /sam then i'd recomend switching to a tredecium for a 6 hit build. The ws set up you have seems ideal for sushi, if you're using meat then i'd suggest adding a 2nd sniper and maybe even an optical hat for the tougher mobs. 80-85% seems to be the sweet spot for meat, i wouldnt bother with it unless youre close to that :E.

[Xrave]

2) According to my last parser data, (in Thickets vs mamools) using meats I had 70% ACC (more or less) as opposed when I ate sushi, I had 90% ACC. Does this mean that when I ate sushi, I'd have 90% rate of full hits guillotine and near 70% when I ate meats?

You're doing something quite wrong on your TP setup if you're pulling 70% acc on mamools while eating meat. I'm assuming you have 8 scythe merits?

As for your (WS) gear, you should focus more on accuracy and attack.

Weapon: P sickle (I'm personally a fan of Tredecim but either works)
Ammo: Bomblet
Head: AF+1 (N.head unless Souleater is on)
Neck: Gorget (Justice Torque > Peacock Charm > Chiv Chain)
Earrings: Brutal/Assault
Body: Haub/Heca (Haub over Heca)
Hands: AF+1/Alky (E.hands is my personal choice over AF+1)
Rings: Rajas/Sniper
Back: Forager
Waist: Potent Belt (I acutally use a Swordbelt+1, but if you need the acc...which apparently you do, stay with Potent)
Legs: Black Cuisses
Feet: Heca (Amir Boots)

It'd be more interesting to see your TP setup since you seem to be pulling such a low accuracy. I can parse a little over 90% accuracy with meat at the north mamool camp.

[Kaope]

2) As far as I understand it... your chance of hitting all 4 hits in guillotine with 70% acc: (0.7)^4 = 24.01%. Chance of hitting all 4 hits with 90% acc = 65.61%. with 95% acc, it's 81.4%.

I guess I'll be eating sushi in the future. But I suppose it all depends on what kind of mobs I'm fighting, I'm sure I have a good hit rate vs puks. (Definitely not 24.01% lol)

I read the thread on KI, and saw this :

5 MND is ~10 dmg with a 2 Pdif

1 STR is ~8 dmg with a 2 Pdif

STR is always the best unless you capped STR , but who knows for sure when you cap it ?

I ve done test and i found I was never capped in exp so i go all STR

Does this mean that AF+1 feet would be the better feet for Guillotine compared to Heca feet? (I'm math-blind ;_

op - what are you subbing? if you're /sam then i'd recomend switching to a tredecium for a 6 hit build. The ws set up you have seems ideal for sushi, if you're using meat then i'd suggest adding a 2nd sniper and maybe even an optical hat for the tougher mobs. 80-85% seems to be the sweet spot for meat, i wouldnt bother with it unless youre close to that :E.

Yeah, I pretty much /sam for all meripo sessions. What's the TP per hit progression for T scythe as opposed to P sickle? P sickle's latent is too good to pass up for me :/

[Kaope]

It'd be more interesting to see your TP setup since you seem to be pulling such a low accuracy. I can parse a little over 90% accuracy with meat at the north mamool camp.

My TP setup is still kinda gimped ^^;

Weapon: P sickle
Ammo: Bomblet
Head: Homam head/Walmart
Neck: Pcharm
Earring: Brutal/Assault
Body: Haub
Rings: Rajas/Sniper
Hands: Dusk >> Will upgrade for Homam
Back: Forager
Waist: Swift Belt
Leg: Homam
Feet: Dusk >> Will upgrade for Homam


PS: I only have lvl 4 sycthe. Btw, need an opinion for Charger Mantle. Yes? or No?

[Therin]

Yeah, I pretty much /sam for all meripo sessions. What's the TP per hit progression for T scythe as opposed to P sickle? P sickle's latent is too good to pass up for me :/

With Rajas and a Brutal Earring you're getting 16.4923 TP per swing with a Perdu Sickle, which is equivalent to a 7-hit build to 100 TP. If you want to drop that down to a 6-hit build you can use Carbonara (+5 Store TP). With Carbonara you get 17.1738 TP per hit.

Alternatively you can stick with Tredecim Scythe which has a high enough delay to allow you to use Peacock Charm and stick with just your Rajas/Brutal and get a 6-hit build (17.4724 TP per hit). If you want to know which scythe actually TPs faster, well, you're looking at 52.8 seconds with a Tredecim so it's better to go with the Carbonara/Perdu setup which hits 100 TP in 50.1 seconds. If you don't have the accuracy to backup this build though (and apparently you don't, 70% is pretty shitty) you'll have to use sushi and drop the Carbonara which puts your Perdu Sickle in a 7-hit build, which means 58.45 seconds.

So ask yourself if the +5 accuracy and +14 attack is worth a 6 second delay every time you want to weaponskill (that's equivalent to quite a bit of +Haste in the long run of the party). I don't think it is.

Edit:

In discussing Perdu vs. Tredecim it's also important to note that while Perdu may swing more, giving you more DoT, Tredecim is also a straight +6-7% critical rate. You can argue which is better but the scales are evened a little better when you realize that while Perdu does in fact swing faster, it doesn't TP faster, as due to the delay/TP formulas there's a definitive sweet spot in terms of what weapons build TP faster and Tredecim is sitting on that sweet spot.

However in the end of all this, I'm going to be sticking to my Algol anyway because with my build I can get to 100% TP in 6-hits and still have a low 489 delay (best of both worlds!). Haven't been beaten by a Scythe DRK yet, and I've partied with a bunch of them.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

...that '_ hits to 100 tp' doesn't apply if you use Abs-TP. And if you don't use abs-tp you suck ass. Very few mobs we merit on resist abs-tp.

Go with perdu.

Also your WS gear and stuff looks fine to me. We don't have a ton of choices. I personally use:

Head: Chs Burg +1
Neck: Snow Gorget
Ammo: Bomb Core
Ears: Abyssal/Brutal
Rings: Rajas/Flame
Feet: Chs Sol+1 (a bit better than hct, +5 MND > +1 STR)
Legs: Black
Waist: Warwolf or Life. I really need to get a potent :/
Back: Amemet+1
Hand: Chs+1
Body: Haub

My weapon is Tred

[Therin]

...that '_ hits to 100 tp' doesn't apply if you use Abs-TP. And if you don't use abs-tp you suck ass. Very few mobs we merit on resist abs-tp.

Go with perdu.

You should be stacking your Absorb - TP with Meditate often so you can get an extra free WS in anyway. Besides, it does still matter because after you WS the game remembers your TP accumulation and you've got an entire 60 seconds where you can't cast again. What are you going to be doing in that time frame? Swinging.

You should be counting hits the mob takes and casting Absorb - TP on that sweetspot where you'll just barely absorb enough TP to put you over 100. If you wait until 80 TP and then absorb 60 you're just wasting time/MP and it would've been better for your DoT to not even cast it at all.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

...I usually have enough haste to get a lower recast.Counting the hits for me is usually counterproductive, it takes too much concentration and I have enough details to juggle like recasts of a bunch of spells and abilities. I usually just try to abs-tp it about 5s after the mob wses and that usually goes well enough. Its more than enough absing to make TP gain inconsistent.

Really as long as you get at least 20 tp your abs-tp wasn't wasted. Its a 2s cast time which is far less than your scythe swings will ever be and as long as you get refreshes and occasionally aspir (depending on camp of course) you should be fine MPwise.

[Tulun]

Anyone parse the differences between using JSE or similiar (Mix of str and attack) over a pure STR build on WS?

I've always felt DRK attack rate was a bit gimped since the need of change from war sub to more defensive ones (SAM or NIN).

Just putting it out there

[Duwie]

absorb tp spam is only effective for /war or /nin or w/e because for /sam you gotta cancel hasso/seigan to cast it each time and if not then it doubles the casting time and the recast i think 2 as well.

As far as tredecium vs perdu.. on /sam, you dont even need a rajas ring for a 6 hit with a tredecium, just the brutal earring. I think thats key because it allows you to get 6hit with 2 accuracy rings and a peacock/sea torque instead of a chiv chain.

[Beckwin]

umm actually I think that /sam after WS, tred and perdu+rajas are the same # of hits to 100. And it does matter, especially if you fight colibri.

[deivi]

as of now using

head: heca (why you guys using AF+1 for non SE?)
neck: chiv chain, cock amulet sometimes (short 1 yorva for months)
ears: abyss/brutal
body: adaberk
hands: AF+1 (STR/dex/acc screams multihit ws)
rings: raja/woodsman
back: abyss cape (gonna try keeping forager's in if I ever get snow gorget)
waist: warwolf
legs: jse
feet: heca (Ill try AF+1 if I ever get another black rivet, but dont think it'll be better)

[Kaope]

head: heca (why you guys using AF+1 for non SE?)

Because I don't have ground hnmls ^^;

[deivi]

yea, thats a good answer. just seems odd the majority of ppl posting their setups arent listing it.

[JoOeetheplatypuS]

I don't use /SAM

So as a constant user of /NIN (and /WAR when I can get away with it) I spam the shit out of abs-tp, even on colibri. On colibri, well, everyone else has shadows too so they can take the abs-tp.

[Darkevolution]

I could use some advice, I've tried quite a few set ups and it seems from what you guys been saying i got it pretty close.

weapon "Tred Scythe"
neck "Snow Gorget"
head "Black Sallet (or AF+1)"
body "Haubergeon (or Heca)"
hands "AF+1"
legs "Black cuisses"
feet "Heca"
waist "Potent belt"
back "Ammet+1
ear1 "Brutal earring"
ear2 "Abyssal earring"
ring1 "Raja's ring"
ring2 "Wood's ring"
ranged "B. Core"

I think I need to get a bomblet and maybe try the mind build, any suggestions would be nice.

Also on a side note: when u use a haste belt, does haste need to be on you for it to stack or will it stack automatically? I remb seeing only one icon one time, and 2 haste icons on a different time.