WeaponSkill delay

[Lyramion]

I always was under the impression Weaponskills also had a fixed delay like JAs had.

But some people complain about their Relic WS having an abnormal delay after. I also find myself standing around like a mule after doing BLADE:KAMU and not swinging for a second. meanwhile my chatlogs shows me hitting the enemy tho.


So do some Weaponskills really delay your next Swings by a large amount or is it just a fluke? A WS like Gekko seems very fast, whereas Rana takes a while to do. Would Gekko beat out Rana by that fact even if they did exactly same damage?


I am a bit confused here - prolly also due to the fact I don´t have many 75s

[Shuemue]

If the chat log is showing that you're swinging, it's probably just a lazy WS animator.

[Xanthe]

I've noticed something similar as well. I believe there is a standard delay with all weapon skills, but it is more apparent with ones that have shorter animations. I've done a lot of Leg Sweep spam between skillchains with my NPC getting points for Drakesbane and my usual pattern is WS > Jump > High Jump. With a longer animation like Penta Thrust I can use my jumps immediately after the animation ends, slightly before, actually. However, when I use Leg Sweep, which has a very short animation, there is still a 1-2 second period in which I will get the "Unable to use job ability." message. In your case, Blade: Jin has a longer animation so the delay isn't as noticable, but Blade: Kamu is so quick that you're conscious of the wait.

[Lyramion]

In your case, Blade: Jin has a longer animation so the delay isn't as noticable, but Blade: Kamu is so quick that you're conscious of the wait.

Actually it´s the opposite. Kamu has a long animation. The stab might be fast but all the shiny bringt blue bling bling after wards takes a long time.

[Xanthe]

Huh. What kind of delay to you notice with Jin? Try spamming a job ability as soon as you use each weapon skill and check the time difference between the "readies" weapon skill message and when you are able to use the job ability.

[edit]
Sometimes with Penta Thrust I'll see melee damage show in the log before the weapon skill animation finishes with no accompanying weapon swing animation, so that's probably what's happening in your case, yeah.

[Mabubeezareel]

I think the easiest way to understand what's occurring is that the game won't allow you to begin a new forced animation until the WS animation has been completed. I believe the same occurs on spells too. I noticed this first while spamming bar- spells for enhancing skillups a looooooooooong time ago. What I found was that I couldn't begin to cast a new spell until the animation from the previous one was completely finished, as in my hand had reached it's apex above my head and held there for about a second or so before returning to my side. I eventually got the timing down, and prevented myself from getting "Unable to cast spells at this time" anymore when spamming.

The same goes for WS animations, which have varying animation lengths compared to the animation used when completing a spell casting. Pentathrust has a long animation, and if you try spamming say, Super Jump, while the animation is occurring, you'll get the "Unable to use job ability" message until the animation is complete. As has been mentioned, you can definitely swing from an auto-attack during a WS animation. You'll hear the grunt from your PC and see the damage in your chat log, but you won't see the actual animation of the swing. This is easily shown by engaging an enemy and hitting a WS macro as soon as you pull your weapon. The chat log will look something like this:

Player readies weapon skill
Player hits mob for x points of damage
Player uses weapon skill
Mob takes x points of damage

The chat log makes it appear that the normal swing occurred before the WS damage, but that's not the case. The order of things that actually would have occurred is WS first, auto-attack second. WS damage is calculated and applied the exact second you use the WS, regardless of when the animation completes or the damage shows in your chat log. I believe that the animations are tied to the chat log register in some way, as you don't see the damage from the WS in your chat log until the animation is complete. That would account for the age-old bug of SC damage not showing up in the chat log when you change equipment prior to the SC animation being completed (which, oddly enough, also cancels the animation of the SC).

EDIT for Xanthe; The reason that you notice it more with Leg Sweep is that the animation for that WS doesn't end when you make contact with the mob. The animation continues as you pull back your weapon and hold it there for about .5-1 seconds.

[ringthree]

I think the easiest way to understand what's occurring is that the game won't allow you to begin a new forced animation until the WS animation has been completed.

This is not true, you can get JA animation overlap.

[Mabubeezareel]

This is not true, you can get JA animation overlap.

That's why I specifically mentioned WS animation. You can overlap JA animations with other JA animations, but you can't use a JA while a WS animation is in progress.

[Suiram]

I don't think you are restricted by the WS animation per-say, but rather that most animations are short enough that they coincide with the standard cooldown. I helped a friend unlock Death Blossom the other day, and that has one of the longest animations I've ever seen. It'd make for a good test vehicle, since I'd be willing to bet if I'm not wrong you could pop off a JA or two before the animation completes.

In either case, if the chatlog shows you hitting, then you are hitting and just not seeing the animation for it. That's why eyeballed TP returns in claims of unusual DAs/TAs on WS are often suspect.

[Riios]

Insurgency takes FOREVER. It looks cool but gd it takes forever to finish. Pretty sure I've tried spamming stun or absorb tp after and I had to wait for the long ass animation to finish. Only ever use it for the occasional "maybe insurgency will be good this time" try, so not really a problem unless I ever get liberator.

[Xanthe]

I don't think you are restricted by the WS animation per-say, but rather that most animations are short enough that they coincide with the standard cooldown. I helped a friend unlock Death Blossom the other day, and that has one of the longest animations I've ever seen. It'd make for a good test vehicle, since I'd be willing to bet if I'm not wrong you could pop off a JA or two before the animation completes.

In either case, if the chatlog shows you hitting, then you are hitting and just not seeing the animation for it. That's why eyeballed TP returns in claims of unusual DAs/TAs on WS are often suspect.

This is correct. As I said before, I am able to use jumps midway through the Penta Thrust animation, somewhere between final windup and the end of the animation. Leg Sweep's animation ends before the end of the "cool down" so it feels as though you're left hanging briefly.

[Lyramion]

Maybe any WS that can produce an aftermath (even if you don´t have a mystic) has a different delay than normal WSes?

[Xanthe]

Maybe any WS that can produce an aftermath (even if you don´t have a mystic) has a different delay than normal WSes?

I'll test with Drakesbane after I get it tonight! :D

[Kirschy]

I started a test on this a while ago, but yea, all the WS I tested had a constant delay of about ~100. In regards to JA after WS, I've often been able to overwrite the animation. An example that comes to mind is going from Catastrophe->Last Resort.

[ringthree]

That's why I specifically mentioned WS animation. You can overlap JA animations with other JA animations, but you can't use a JA while a WS animation is in progress.

Let me rephrase. You can overlap animations; WS, JA, Spell, attack round, or otherwise. Xanthe is basically correct. Animations do not effect the cooldown for the WS, JA, Spell, attack round or otherwise.

[Questionable]

Think about Blade: Metsu.. it's freaking long, but if you swap gear right after you hit the Ws, you can cancel most of the animation and do something else.

[Lyramion]

I started a test on this a while ago, but yea, all the WS I tested had a constant delay of about ~100. In regards to JA after WS, I've often been able to overwrite the animation. An example that comes to mind is going from Catastrophe->Last Resort.

Thank you! This was always my believe - yet there were people left and right yapping "Metsu is too long" & "Insurgency is too long" etc and defending their opinion when I told them that the delay prolly is the same for all WSes

[Max™]

Hmmm, gonna have to try a macro to see if I can use a JA with a /wait 1 after a WS.

I know I managed to skip a sturmwind animation yesterday while farming up some recollections/getting ez ws points, JA > Sturmwind immediately, and I didn't even move, but the monster got clobbered.

[Clave]

Kaiten has a longass animation, but I've been able to Seigan and/or Third Eye before the animation is complete, so I'm fairly sure all WSs have the same delay before they let you do anything else and long animations are not a disadvantage whatsoever.

[Drzaus]

Say that when you're tanking LBC unnerfed due to awesome wind weather! Getting stuck in place due to your ws while it turns and watching it use homing missile is not fun. The same can happen with any weapon skill, but kaiten is longer and even filtered I get stuck for a good 3+ seconds which is a long time when it comes to LBC facing you. I've only actually had it happen once, but after that first time I've been careful to never allow it to happen again.

Having the freedom to use my ws whenever I want and still be able to move without being rooted in place is what I want. There is a small delay on using abilities after a ws but that really isn't a huge problem in most cases.