Looking to take up a mage job

[Cream Soda]

So, after mnk > dnc > sam > drg, I'm finally looking on taking a mage job to 75 and I've narrowed it down to either SCH or RDM. I'm trying to decide between the two by looking at all the aspects.

Which will be more useful in X situation/Y situation
Which will cost more
Easily accessible rare/ex gear? (Like i know theres a huge list for rdm af2 in my dyna shell for example)
For people who have both, which is more fun?
And other than that, mainly looking for any comments/suggestions for the two jobs.

One thing atm that has me leaning towards sch is that if I lv rdm, I may be forced to use it more than my main job.

[Antithesis]

Scholar is good enough that it has plenty of uses in endgame situations. In addition to very versatile, few competition on certain pieces of gear (Hi2u AF2) and pretty fun to play. But there is just enough leeway that you can use your other jobs as frequently to.

Prepare to whore it up if you level RDM and your endgame LS has a lack of them.

That's just my opinion though.

[S N K]

Sch, If anything I think you'll enjoy it more.

[Epical]

Yeah, I'd say SCH too. They have some pretty useful abilities and purposes now. I'd also assume that AF2 list isn't too long at all.

[Cream Soda]

kk, thanks. definitely leaning towards sch, but will listen to all opinions and make my final decision when I ding 37 on the both of them. Added poll to OP btw.

[Yugl]

SCH is easier to equip (Lots of goodies from Nyzul and Einherjar).

[Maxxthepenguin]

RDM because I want others to experience the misery of refreshing 5 BLMs while hasting 2 out of party melees

[Kaelen]

I think that there's already enough Red Mages around, so I say Scholar.

Not that being a Scholar myself has given me any sort of bias. Not at all.

[Nymphadora]

I think sch would be more fun in endgame than rdm. But I've never had much interest in rdm for some reason.

[Kaylia]

RDM, because of haste and refresh.

SCH has its use, but RDM is more needed in my opinion. Could do SCH after RDM probably if you like mage job.

[jimbobsonofgod]

If you need to nuke - use blm
If you need to cure/haste - use rdm
If you need a raise above 2 - use whm
If you need AOE stonesking+phalanx - give your smns something to do.
If you need a sch for anything - find more friends.


Honestly I never get to play sch ever. Other jobs are just more well suited in this game.
99.9% of the sch out there cant nuke HNM worth beans, and if they ain't nuking they are butchering healing.(Generalizing I know).

But honestly Rdm fits a need. SCH is a last resort when you can find any of the above.

[Loziel]

Sch

[Kaeko]

Long post

SCH phalanx and haste is going to be far superior to a SMN's version of either. Noctoshield is -13 while SCH Phalanx goes up to -27, over double. Stoneskin SCH gets up to 350 while SMN's only gets in the high 200s if I remember correctly. The only Blood Pact: Ward that will generally trump a SCH is Hastega. I'm not saying SMN isn't useful on HNMs, it's just I wouldn't compare it favorably to SCH when it comes to AoE buffs.

Anyways, I'll try to give as unbiased an answer as possible. BLM is still my favorite job of the 2, but SCH does have some nice niche/unique roles you can fit into...

1) Very strong in Salvage and probably most strong in Nyzul Isle.

Before anyone tries to say they run the best group ever created and it doesn't have a SCH, I'm not saying you must have a SCH to run a good group. Basically SCH's strong point is strong AoE buffs (better than SMN versions), namely the big 3 - Enspells, Phalanx, and Stoneskin.

The way I typically use these 3 is to layer them on, then go scout. Because Phalanx and Skin are on, the melees rarely need healing unless you fight something like Flayer boss. I almost always run Nyzul Isle with 4 members. I'll typically layer buffs then separate and scout. Because you're using AoEs with semi-long durations, you can afford to leave the group while still maintaining their safety.

You're also useful for crowd control and for those rare melee resistant targets like Slimes, Puddings, etc. Essentially you're the main heal with strong crowd control and magic damage all rolled into one. Very strong for an event like Nyzul where you don't have to be the best at any one thing.


2) Very strong in a group that already contains a Haster and Refresher.

Not every mage in your backline has to be able to cast Haste and Refresh. It gets redundant. Typically that 2nd healer slot is a good fit for SCH. This doesn't mean that SCH is the only job that can fill this role, it's just having a SCH in this role does not gimp your setup in any fashion. You have very strong buffs, very good MP efficiency, and good enmity control assuming you're geared correctly.

3) Best job in the game at managing large scale events such as Einherjar with multiple parties and alliances.

It's the only job in the game with the ability to -ga cure (up to Curaga III) outside its own party. This makes it very strong as a safety net if 1 group is deficient. You can also AoE -na obviously. You can AoE any party in any alliance, and AoE status any of your essential crowd control moves - Sleeps, Binds, and Gravities.

Typically on something like Einherjar, I'm more of an 'overseer' if you will. I actually don't have a party when doing it and go solo so I can pull without fear of wiping everyone else. You have your own form of refresh, and can contain potentially large groups of mobs. You can also fill any loose ends if need be since you can instantly become a strong backline supporter or healer.

SCH is NOT good at 'anchoring' your backline because it doesn't have the 2 main spells that make the FFXI world turn - refresh and haste. Because of this, you're never picked first for any support role. What keeps SCH optimal in enough situations to be considered useful is the fact that not every mage has to have refresh or haste as long as 1 guy does.

Personally the best way I can think of to play a SCH is as a sort of scout / 1 man army sort of build. You're not built to be optimal at any of the big things mages do - magical DD (BLM), cures (WHM), support (RDM) - but you do all 3 essentially 2nd best. This makes you incredibly self sufficient as well as able to fill any gaps your group may have at the moment.

It's a difficult job due to the # of things you can do (that are actually useful) as well as managing your Arts and abilities. It's a macroing nightmare to most people. In my experience, I've met a lot of players that think SCH is terrible, but I'm generally able to convince them after they see it. It is NOT an essential job in FFXI like BRD and RDM; it is still a strong job though - best used in large scale events and events and Salvage/Nyzul.

That's my SCH essay for you.

***************

To answer your actual questions.

Which will be more useful in X situation/Y situation

RDM is always more useful, unless there's already enough of them. This really depends on what sort of job available your LSs have, but it's almost always RDM.

Which will cost more

RDM, SCH is dirt cheap due to lack of gear. Most expensive item you will probably want is an Ixion Cloak, which isn't even optimal anymore due to AF2 body.

Easily accessible rare/ex gear? (Like i know theres a huge list for rdm af2 in my dyna shell for example)

SCH - no competition for almost anything other than maybe Herald's Gaiters and Novio Earring. RDM is obviously one of the hardest to get when it comes to RARE/EX.

For the last bit where you were afraid that if you were RDM you would be forced into that role - it's probably true unless you intentionally choose to suck at it to the point where people know not to ask. RDM and BRD are the 2 most useful jobs in FFXI. If you have one you have to expect to be using it often.

Hope this helps

[evilpaul]

So, after mnk > dnc > sam > drg, I'm finally looking on taking a mage job to 75 and I've narrowed it down to either SCH or RDM. I'm trying to decide between the two by looking at all the aspects.

Which will be more useful in X situation/Y situation
Which will cost more
Easily accessible rare/ex gear? (Like i know theres a huge list for rdm af2 in my dyna shell for example)
For people who have both, which is more fun?
And other than that, mainly looking for any comments/suggestions for the two jobs.

One thing atm that has me leaning towards sch is that if I lv rdm, I may be forced to use it more than my main job.

These are just a few different points, imagine that I went back and added bullets to them...

Since you're going to need a bunch of subjobs (/BLM /WHM & /RDM if you pick SCH) I'd get those to 37 if they aren't already.

Red Mage sucks to level to 37. Scholar was basically the same as Red Mage when I leveled it to 37 pre-update. (i.e. it also sucked to level, no Sublimation or Addendums at the time though.)

SCH will cost you more on spell scrolls to 75 than RDM. Job specific ones and the Tier IV nukes will cost a decent amount of gil.

A pro to both jobs is that you'll have Dispel and Evasion/Def boosted mobs are fucking obnoxious in low level EXP without it. A con to SCH would be that people probably expect you to mainheal and you need to switch to Dark Arts and use Addendum: Black to have access to Dispel which makes it very impractical at low levels with fewer Stratagem charges with longer cooldown times.

But as getting to level 37 is only like 20% of the way to 75 I wouldn't really weigh too heavily how much of a pain in the ass that will be.

Gear for SCH is AF, Relic, AH, Nyzul and Assault stuff all of which is easy to get or luck (i.e. shit actually dropping that you want in Dynamis/Nyzul). If you're doing Salvage heavily though, it might be a problem. SCH Rellic will probably be easier to come by as I'm pretty sure that every Dynamis LS has way more RDMs than SCHs.

A nice thing about leveling RDM after having leveled melee jobs is you know how important Haste is. Many RDMs don't seem to know/care.

I voted SCH in the poll. You can see my job levels here.

edit: Also, to throw in $.02 on having to go as RDM or SCH to events instead. It would depend on the event you're doing, the number of reliable/skilled mages in your shell, and how well geared your DD jobs are most likely. If you're one of your LS's top DD you'll probably be wanted to come DD to lots of things.

[Kaylia]

RDM doesn't suck up to 37. With /nin and 2 swords, you can outdamage almost every melee before 30. The strongest one will catch up around this level, but you're still debuffing the monsters, healing the party and tanking. I had sword merit when I did it, but I'm sure it can work for anyone.


I soloed 32-37 in Altep on goblin's pet with my healer NPC. forgot how much I was getting, but it was pretty good xp

[Eldelphia]

SCH is a fantastic job for low man events. It's great when paired with a RDM and phenomenal when teaming up with BLMs.

SCH is a better nuker and healer than a RDM.

Almost every RDM I know, hates it at some point because they're wanted for refresh and haste. If you're going to level RDM, be prepared to accept that some days you'll be soloing uber NMs and others you'll be freshing and hasting the tank party. Do not level RDM if you're not a team player. Lots of people do this because they like the idea of independance.

If you want to keep playing your other jobs, I'd level SCH because whilst it's situationally useful it does not have the same attraction to ls leaders as RDM.

Stuff in which my SCH has been exceptionally useful:

Any level 50 cap event
Sacrarium/Swift Belts - AoE Erase ftw
Ix'Aerns
Golden - Tongued Culberry
Limbus
ZNMs
Manaburn xp
Dynamis

I haven't had a chance to play SCH in Einherjar, the only times we've been I've been WHM or BRD. It's good when teamed up with a RDM for something like Nyzul but in all honesty, we prefer WHM/SCH + BRD for that.

I'd like to take this job to Salvage when we restart, right now we're focusing on Nyzul Isle.

SCH is an exceptional job but won't always be in the limelight. I levelled my SCH 37-75 over taking my RDM up, cos I got to the 60's on RDM and stalled. I'm the ultimate mage player, I love them but I simply can't quite find the momentum to finish RDM.

New JA on SCH are really nice too. Lot of the gear is accessible to get you started.

[pchan]

If you need to cure/haste - use rdm

I can't remember the last time I was main healing on rdm in endgame. I use rdm for pulling dynamis/alvage/limbus, backup/co - heal with a whm, debuff bosses, kite stuff in Valgrind, enm etc and even nuke quite efficiently in salvage (typically poping skadi body rampart, chainspell Nuke takes 10% off a boss at least).