Questions for British/French/others who have been through the hospital system there

[Zhais]

Long story short I'm doing a research paper for my English class (of all classes) on the differences between a national health care system and what the U.S. has with insurance/managed care providers. Mainly, I'm focused on both the monetary aspects (how is it paid for mostly) and the standard of care that each system provides.

I'm not really looking to use anyone as a source at this point, but this topic has actually sparked an interest in me after reading some of the stuff. So any questions here are mostly for my own curiosity. Of course, if you randomly have any awesome sources to link me to, prz do

So,

For those of you that live under a nationalized health care system, could you share your experiences with it?

What reason did you go to the hospital?

How long was the wait to see the doctor, if any at all?

How many people were there waiting along with you?

How was the staff and doctors? Friendly? Effecient? etc. Describe them if you could.

Anything notable stand out with your experiences with the system?

And, any idea what part/amount of your taxes go towards funding the system?



Looking forward to seeing any responses. Will be interesting to see how my findings turn out from the research paper, and would be neat if they matched up with testimonials.

[Lliandra]

What reason did you go to the hospital?

I had been struck down with a Viral when i was about 15. Nasty POS. Parents thought I had a brain tumour or meningitis or some shit. Lost about a stone in 2 weeks through vomititing and not being able to keep anything down On Call doctor suggested I go to the hosp.

How long was the wait to see the doctor, if any at all?

Consdiering I'd been forwarded on by my doctor, I had to wait in A&E for about 30 minutes. Not that good when your head feels like its being stamped on by the entire crew of Riverdance, but a lot better than how long i'd heard other people had to wait. It was a friday night too so was full of drunken yobs who'd sliced their hand open on a smashed bottle. Clearly them > me!

How many people were there waiting along with you?

My mam and dad. Both having kittens lol

How was the staff and doctors? Friendly? Effecient? etc. Describe them if you could.

Doctors and Nurses were fine. Really friendly and could see I was in a lot of pain and distress. Did all they could to calm me down and see what the problem was. Receptionists however act like they own the fucking world, but then again imo they all do.

Anything notable stand out with your experiences with the system?

Their prioritising seemed a little off. Like I was quite literally howling with pain and couldn't stop crying, yet (as i mentioned earlier) they let a fucking drunk twat in before me as he'd cut his hand. Put a plaster on it geez!! Other than that, no not really. Although the normal NHS Doctor service is a bit poo. I'll elaborate if you want me to.

And, any idea what part/amount of your taxes go towards funding the system?

Well at the time I was in school and only had a part time job so i don't think all that much. Saying that, i'm full time now and still don't know how much goes into the NHS. Currently i pay about £50 in tax a week tho.

[Wintermute]

Last time I went to the Hospital was when I tore up my knee. (ACL and Cartilidge tears)

Was in A&E about an hour and a half waiting to be seen by a doctor. This was at 8am too so I was the only person there.

Friend of mine had to wait over 40min to get seen when he tore the ligaments in his ankle (all 3 times). Both he and I were driven there by an Ambulance who let the nurses know we were there so fuck knows what they were doing all that time.

Another friend left the Hospital in frustration with a broken finger after waiting 2 hours and not being addressed by a nurse or doctor.

Efficiency overall is hit or miss. It's all about the Nurse/Doctor you get pretty much like in all jobs. Some visits were quick and easy and others dragged on.

Most Nurses do the job well, others shouldn't be near the filing/computers. You also get the chatty ones who think gossip or everyone taking a break at the same time is a better idea than doing their job.

Worst were the Doctors who seem to think over-booking and making people wait hours is a great idea. (Fuck you making me wait 2 hours for a 5min chat). My surgeon in particular is a tit and up his own arse but he did sort my knee out.

That said, the only reason my knee was fixed up as quick as it was is due to the cartilidge tear that was preventing me from walking. They fixed that and my ACL over a 2 Month span with as many surgeries since my surgeon went on holiday. My dad was on a waiting list for 16 Years before they fixed his ACL and my friend was waiting months. (All surgeries are done in batches as it more convenient for surgeons).

Only thing that stands out is how random every visit is. Sometimes it's a well oiled machine and at others everything sputters.
The Physio department is like a yo-yo for quality, the stories my firend who works at their reception could tell...

Overall I think Hospitals are run like businesses, focusing on efficiency rather than patient care. Some people do go the extra mile but others pretty much either do as much as they can in as little time as possible or are just going through the motions.

Prioritisation in particular is completely fucked up as Lliandra mentioned, easy cases are dealt with first rather than severity. Pricks should just set up a ticket system, at least then you'd know hom much longer you'll be writhing in pain.

Overall I like to think of it as calling a Customer Service centre. Sure, they all sound like they know what they're doing but you want to get through to the guy who can get the job done properly.

Funding is taken from Taxes I believe, then the Gov splits it up however their budget can fuck it up best.
Most all people I know have ptivate health insurance taken out too though. As nice as it is to have a Hospital you can visit at any time and get sorted out for free when shit really hits the fan most people go private to get it fixed ASAP rather then get put on a waiting list.


If you want polar opposite stories find people who've used the NHS in the UK, that's a goldmine.

[Obev]

What reason did you go to the hospital?

I got some cut infected on my finger and it was making playing bass painful.

How long was the wait to see the doctor, if any at all?

It was a walk-in clinic, took me about an hour to see a doctor.

How many people were there waiting along with you?

There were maybe seven other people in the waiting room when I came in

How was the staff and doctors? Friendly? Effecient? etc. Describe them if you could.

Friendly, efficient, quick. Well, the doctor and the nurse were. The receptionist when I came in was pretty unhelpful and incomprehensible but once I filled the forms in I didn't have anything to do with her. The doctor was joking about my badly-infected finger and how I didn't think it was worth bothering them with, which put me at ease. The nurse cleaned the infected mess up in about two minutes, and after a dressing was put on it and they found the doctor again to write out a prescription for heavy-duty antibiotics I was out of there within an hour and a half of walking in.

Anything notable stand out with your experiences with the system?

My finger got better, and only two weeks after I got my hand repaired my band got a gig. I see clear correlation between these two incidents. Really though, nothing "stands out" because I've never gone for private health insurance so my experiences are one hundred per cent with the NHS.

And, any idea what part/amount of your taxes go towards funding the system?

No idea. The whole thing, health care for over fifty million people, costs the government ninety billion a year. I can't really be bothered working out how much of that is from direct taxation, but even if it's all from our taxes (not accounting for money recouped from prescription charges and hospital cafeterias [and assuming that all fifty million of us pay the same in tax]) then it's less than two thousand pounds per person per year.

[Zhais]

Thanks for the responses so far Keep 'em coming!

Wouldn't mind asking more specific questions about what you guys said a little later... 4am and I need to work on this report more instead of getting distraced

[The Stig]

What reason did you go to the hospital?

I worked in one for 13 months, doing IT Support.

How long was the wait to see the doctor, if any at all?

--/--

How many people were there waiting along with you?

--/--

How was the staff and doctors? Friendly? Effecient? etc. Describe them if you could.

Doctors were asian mostly. Assholes too. Rich. But I guess at the end of the day they were nice at heart, but surprisingly naive/dumb.

Anything notable stand out with your experiences with the system?

One massive fail. The NHS CRS : www.nhscrs.nhs.uk — that the goverment spent £12.5 billion on (yes, billion) is still a bit of a fail, nothing for it at all, slow ... there's been some praises but in the press it's mostly negative. If your paper is about the hospitals in England I highly recommend you bring this up. Even big companies stepped back from it, Accenture, notably.

And, any idea what part/amount of your taxes go towards funding the system?

Nope, but probably none of it or it's all gone corrupt...



My post was to highligh the "big" IT system that's supposedly to be revolutionary. But nope, it's just one big fat citrix system, during the 13 months I was there the system went live in that hospital (it goes from hospital to hospital) there was sooooo many error it was stupid.

[Jodwahh]

I worked in a NHS hospital for 4 years as a Porter in both A&E (English E.R) and in the main hospital itself, so I guess I can give a little bit of an insight. One thing I learned from working there, even as a Porter which is basicly just a general dogsbody, is that 90% of people always assume that there as the most seriously injured in the entire hospital. As much as people say that it always seems that it takes ages to be seen and that they are infact dying, they really don't know if there's someone dying less than 20 feet away from them. Newsflash, if your dying then you wont have to wait. I've been on the end of long waits to see a doctor at the hospital before (gogo up to a 4 hour wait on an insaaaaaaaanely busy day) so I can sympathize with people feeling fucked off, but there really is no way to know what is happening to other people in there with you.


What reason did you go to the hospital?

Many different reasons over the years, in varied degree's of nastiness

How long was the wait to see the doctor, if any at all?

Totally varies, if you are in proper bad shape and need to be seen instantly then you will be, if you step on a nail then expect to be in for a bit of a wait.

How many people were there waiting along with you?

Just me and my Ma, Nurses where always nice to us and got us tea and biscuits

How was the staff and doctors? Friendly? Effecient? etc. Describe them if you could.

Doctor's = Douche's to pretty much everyone equally, patients and staff members alike. Nurse's I always got along with well as both a patient and an underling.

Anything notable stand out with your experiences with the system?

People are selfish bastards. I'm sure you may feel your dying from that migraine, but someone's just been stabbed in the belly and there guts are hanging out so obviously your going to have to wait a while. Strange how some people act like it's the end of the world if they aren't seen instantly, even if it's something really minor.

And, any idea what part/amount of your taxes go towards funding the system?

In England we have a National Insurance system that is taken directly out of your pay before you recieve it.

[Keria]

What reason did you go to the hospital? I broke my arm in a nasty accident

How long was the wait to see the doctor, if any at all? About 45mins for triage (was about midday), from then a 4hour wait before operating because I ate right before the accident. The other time I have been to Accident and Emergency I waited ~4hours in total for 3 broken fingers; includes xray + splinting, wasn't in much pain so that was why it took so long.

How many people were there waiting along with you? Quite a few, don't really remember because of the pain lol. Usually there's about 7-10 other patients waiting.

How was the staff and doctors? Friendly? Effecient? etc. Describe them if you could. They were unfriendly and seemed focused only on shoving people through the system. I was quite young and very distressed. I was left alone a lot, not allowed to see my parents, etc. That said though, it does vary. For the most part doctors in hospitals are rude and impersonal because they are understaffed or just very busy, whereas those in clinics are more friendly and easier to talk to. Nurses are usually more approachable and friendly, except for triage nurses who, while being nice, also are very very busy. The other time I was in hospital when I was a kid, I was an in-patient for about 4 weeks and was cared for very well. NHS staff are usually extremely efficient, especially in triage, and will usually explain every step of what they are doing.

Anything notable stand out with your experiences with the system? There's long waits for certain services like physiotherapy, hip replacement, "essential" cosmetic surgery, mental health, or anything not life-and-death. However if your problem is easy/quick to solve, like most medicines, crutches, prosthetics, etc, you will get it very quickly and for free or for cheap.

And, any idea what part/amount of your taxes go towards funding the system?

It's not actually included with regular taxes, it's a separate payment called National Insurance which covers healthcare, unemployment, and pensions as well as misc other stuff and is invested separately- although British citizens are able to get treatment for free whether they have ever paid NI or not, the NI is automatically deducted from pay.

It's somewhat unfair in that the rates only apply to direct income (ie what you see on your payslip) and not to huge bank interest or assets. So the less well-off pay a larger proportion of their pay than the well-off who live off assets. It's not such a huge amount. I did not have to pay normal taxes the last time I was in employment, but NI payment came to about £14 a month from £300-400 pay.

[Blabj]

What reason did you go to the hospital?
Suspected broken ankle.

How long was the wait to see the doctor, if any at all?
Approximately 3 hours.

How many people were there waiting along with you?
A lot, a full waiting room at peak time (around 6-7pm) I'd estimate about 10-15 people in the room were there to see a doctor or nurse.

How was the staff and doctors? Friendly? Effecient? etc. Describe them if you could.
The whole service left a sour taste, to be quite frank. The doctors didn't seem to care that a man with a 4 inch gash in his forehead was threatening to leave, constantly murmuring abuse at them and other patients, and bleeding everywhere. There was a faint air of arrogance, that they just didn't care, as they strolled about at their own leisurely pace. The doctor I spoke to seemed only too willing to sit and chat with me, striking up conversation about how I'd injured my ankle (asking me what clubs I'd went to before hand etc.) which struck me as concerning considering the amount of patients waiting to see him.

Anything notable stand out with your experiences with the system?
The fact that aparently (having been told this by the doctor himself) that the triage nurse should have identified that my ankle wasn't broken, and sent me home there and then with a few pain killers and an ankle support. However, instead she referred me on to the doctor, probably knowing full well my ankle wasn't broken, leaving me to sit in a queue for about 2:45hrs.

And, any idea what part/amount of your taxes go towards funding the system?
I'm a student, no real source of income.

A bit of an aside, but when I had my tonsils removed, the service was decent, with around the clock care from a team of nurses (I was a minor at the time, which might explain that...) in a nice atmosphere.

I have also been in private medical care before, and I can say it's as speedy as many people say it is. I had booked an appointment a day before, and the moment I arrived at the hospital I was seen to by a doctor, and my problem was solved. I have no idea how much the family's private care costs, I believe my father gets it with his work.

[Zhais]

Well, so far it seems the NHS is about on par with our normal standard of service in America in terms of waiting/grumpiness of doctors (hit and miss) and such. I guess I'm not amazingly familiar with busy hospital times in America, as the only times I've had to go in were late late at night, and even then not for anything major.

Pretty much sounds like the taxes being taken out of your pay is just like how a lot of employers here do insurance... and you get the same treatment. Only difference is that the final hospital bill is free minus things like crutches or the like.


I haven't looked at Stig's link yet, think I'll do that now

[Vendeen]

It's better then the US over in Europe

[Kaeko]

(I had to sort of know this stuff for med school interviews - getting asked the question "what is wrong with the US healthcare system" is a loaded question because so many things are wrong with it and while it's hard to be 'wrong', it's also hard to be 'right' on how to fix it)

In general, the regulations are much less tight all the way around outside the US - doctors are not as under the microscope with every move, and meds cost less because law suits and purification standards are not nearly as high as the US. The result is a health care system that is more affordable (by say a socialistic society), but probably more prone to abuse due to less risk of any consequences.

The world runs on money. The US health care system costs so much more at every step because it's so highly regulated. I'll give you an example - meds. Remember back a year or 2 ago there was a big story about buying your meds from Canada and not the US and you can get the exact same med for about 1/3rd the cost? And the US said no to it and everyone thought it was the dumbest thing ever? The reason you can buy the same pill for 1/3rd the price just about anywhere (in this case Canada), is because the US has significantly higher purification standards for making any drug, hence our drugs are more 'pure', and cost more. You could debate if this small added purity is worth the cost but that's a debate on its own.

Another issue is drug discovery. We have the FDA, which is the ultimate regulator of essentially every item you can put in your mouth, and on or in your body. It is extremely tight. We learn about a lot of drugs, discovered right here in the US, that cannot be used in trials here, but are freely usable in Europe. They have lessened drug standards in general (you require less positive data to prove your drug is safe and your drug reaches market faster). To a drug company, time is money, because longer you have to take convincing the FDA, the more data you have to show to prove it to the FDA (costs ALOT of $$). Again, you can debate whether or not this is worth the added cost or not. The majority of medications in the world are discovered and developed here, but we are often the last developed country in the world that ends up using them on main stream society.

Lawsuits and Insurance. Doctors here are paid more in general. They also have significantly higher insurance. This is due mostly to the threat of lawsuit. This is the great United States, and if someone, anyone screws you over, it's your God given right to sue the shit out of them. This is true for doctors as well, and when it involves potential bodily harm to a person, that's a lot of $$. You've probably seen TV adds about this sort of thing (DID YOU TAKE PHENPHEN? CALL ME NOW, etc.) So the insurance is really high. For example, the average yearly insurance for a brain surgeon exceeds 1 million a year I believe.

Fairness. I think the US might be the worst developed country in the world when it comes to availability of services to all social-economic groups. This has to obviously do with the fact we don't have a socialistic health care system in addition to the fact it costs so much here. For the average middle income family, they can survive say their car breaking down or needing a new fridge, but if a loved one gets sick, that's a couple years of debt at least to treat. It's not so much the cost, but how much it costs relative to just about anything else in the USA.

Responsiveness (defined basically as how nice your doctor is to you). The US ranks highest in the world for this. Generally speaking we have nice doctors relative to everyone else. The chance of the doctor being a dick to you is probably low; the chance of him being cold and non-empathetic is probably higher but still lower than other places. Nowadays you can even rate your doctor online and dish all the shit you want about them, and the doctor can't do a thing. In med school, I can tell you first hand, we take actual courses on being empathetic and making the patient feel comfortable. It's not a walk in the park once you start dealing with people that haven't bathed in months or in situations where you have to ask a conservative Muslim about sexual history.

Number of doctors and efficiency. I think just about every country is in need of more doctors, but the US suffers probably the most of any developed nation from a medical staff shortage - not just of doctors, but lab technicians and ESPECIALLY nurses. The paperwork system in medicine in the US is terrible. Ever wonder why in an age where I can read your facebook from a phone, you have to fill out 3+ sheets of paper at the doctor's office? Almost nothing is computerized in medicine here in the US. Fixing this problem alone would lower costs, stress on both doctors and patients, allow doctors to see more patients in general, and reduce mistakes (some pharmacy schools give students a crash course on reading doctor handwriting. The pharmacist half the time can't even be 100% what the paper says sometimes - they just also happen to know what you probably need so you don't get the wrong med).

Try this article if you want more statistics on it.

http://dll.umaine.edu/ble/U.S.%20HCweb.pdf

[Ksandra]

out of curiosity to add to the questions, for those that have universal health care and have waited for an hour or so n' stuff, would you still consider it better than regular health care? Or even against the problems would you still want it to be universal?

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

out of curiosity to add to the questions, for those that have universal health care and have waited for an hour or so n' stuff, would you still consider it better than regular health care? Or even against the problems would you still want it to be universal?

Universal health care IS regular to them. I understand the point you're trying to make, but it's the same as asking someone here to compare their experiences against universal healthcare they've never had. Which is why you get ignorant "ARRRRRRGGGGHHHHH COMMUNISM" answers from dumb hicks all the time.

Unless someone has been to America as well as the UK, Canada, France, or another social country ( btw universal healthcare and social healthcare are two different systems; see Japan and Korea ), they have no basis of comparison.

Any person I have spoken to ( I have several British and French friends working here or have visited Denver from abroad that work for Beatport.com ) have unanimously said the US system is complete trash. In the end Americans pay about 90% more in Medicare taxes + insurance costs + copays. Factor in deductibles and it can go anywhere from 90% - 3000% more. The American system is a sham.

[Eggroll]

Living in Canada, I can attest to the pros and cons of our health care system. A while ago, my dad had stage 4 cancer and he was basically told he'd have to wait a few months for any sort of operation, pretty much guaranteeing he would die. He ended up going to Houston for an operation and got it immediately, despite the enormous costs. My mom has also had a lot of problems with her intestines (3 surgeries now), and shes been treated her locally. Aside from the time spent in the waiting room (4 hours), her treatment has been great. As for the costs I can't really say much about that as I don't pay taxes yet.

[Darus Grey]

Waiting a little is nothing compared to the 40million+ people in the US who just...can't go, or get *any* treatment.

[Kuya]

Does the OP want people to argue about health care? Don't think it's prudent to derail the thread into an argument if the OP is just looking for participants in his study. Unless he says otherwise.

[Zhais]

Wouldn't really prefer argumentation no lol.

The fact that people are going w/o insurance is a given, non-arguable fact, and is one of the leading reasons why people want to change the current system.

Nothing to argue about there



like I mentioned before, I'm mainly trying to focus on the cost differences, and the quality of patient care ( and if there is any correlation ) in the paper. Basically, most sources agree the current system is flawed in that hospitals are hemorrhaging money. Main debate is how/when/who will change it without wrecking the current economy or taxpayers.

But all these comments are just for personal curiosity




oh look 999 posts.... I need an epic 1000th post

[Telamond]

I live in Stockholm, Sweden, the healthcare in my experience is pretty sufficient. If it's an emergency you get healthcare directly, otherwise, if you have some kind of weird cough and need some diagnostics it could take a while...

What reason did you go to the hospital?
Allergic reaction to something I was analyzing at lab. Since it wasn't a pure emergency, and it was too late to go to a doctor at a hospital, I went to a private clinic (that was partially run by the government).

How long was the wait to see the doctor, if any at all?
20 minutes

How many people were there waiting along with you?
~12-15

How was the staff and doctors? Friendly? Effecient? etc. Describe them if you could.
Friendly doctors, efficient nurses. They were kind and understanding, and they told me when to look away when they were going to jab that syringe in to take a blood sample. To get the answer from the lab took a week though, so their bioanalysts were working pretty slow (even though I provided with a short list of possible contact allergens (5)).

Anything notable stand out with your experiences with the system?
I had to pay for the revisit (to get the lab results). 115 SEK each time (which is roughly 10 USD).

And, any idea what part/amount of your taxes go towards funding the system?
I don't pay taxes yet. So I wouldn't know. But I definitively think that free healthcare is worth paying for. Everyone should have their right to healthcare.

[Cesaria]

What reason did you go to the hospital?
Last couple - one I fell off a chair while putting kids' work up on the walls (not meant to stand on them but we all do) and busted the ligaments in my knee, the other - my fiance sliced his finger open while loading the washing machine (yes I've got no idea how he managed this one either but there was a lot of blood)

How long was the wait to see the doctor, if any at all?
3 hours for my knee, for the sliced finger the triage nurse dressed it as best as she could (he'd cut it in a stupid place) and I think we were in and out in an hour. Generally if I have to go to A+E I take a book and prepare for a 4 hour wait or so.

How many people were there waiting along with you?
Me and the other half

How was the staff and doctors? Friendly? Effecient? etc. Describe them if you could.
Hospital receptionists I generally expect to be as miserable as sin (don't blame them) but we all had a good laugh at my dear fiance stood there with a hand wrapped in a tea towel and me explaining that he'd only been doing the laundry. The doctors vary - you get the odd asian guy who mumbles incomprehensibly and has no interest in seeing you as a person, but generally the ones I've had have been pretty good really (our local hospital I rank pretty highly - well the one before we moved).

Anything notable stand out with your experiences with the system?
It's overworked, under resourced, has to take a lot of crap from drunken idiots on a weekend night and the staff are doing the best they can basically - same as most UK public services. You've got the good, the mediocre and the downright jaded and uncaring staff - same as ever. Some hospitals are by far worse than others though - there are certain ones when I lived in a different part of the country that I'd drive further to avoid having to go to them.

And, any idea what part/amount of your taxes go towards funding the system?
I try not to look at how much tax I pay - but I can't begrudge public services being funded since I'm paid out of taxpayer income myself in a round-about way.

I have no issues with hospital staff at all - my local GP surgery at my old place however were dreadful - impossible to get appointments, rude receptionists, doctors who blatantly didn't give a monkeys (one bodged a proceedure on me as he was trying to rush to join his colleagues in the pub for lunch) and at one noteable point when I was trying desperately to get some help with the breakdown I was in the middle of having (teaching stress finally broke me a few years back), the receptionist happily asked me on the phone (and she was chewing gum while on the phone which I hate anyhow) when trying to book an appointment "Oh tried to top yerself yet?" I fully accept that they're just a crap surgery though.