Computer Upgrades

[Jurgen]

So about a year and a half ago my friend and I built a new computer. At the time I wasn't too big into computer games (read: played PS3 mostly) but I'm looking for graphics upgrades on my computer now and I have a couple of questions. *Note* This is not for final fantasy, more geared towards action games like Crysis.

My system currently is:

ASUS P5K Deluxe LGA775
EVGA GeForce 8800GT
Core 2 Quad Q9300 @ 2.5GHz
OCZ Reaper 4GB Ram
600W PSU

My current mobo doesn't support SLI, and I am *pretty* sure it doesn't support CrossfireX.

1) Would buying two lower end graphics cards (like 9800GT) outperform a single, more powerful graphics card (like GTX 280/260)?

2) Some people swear by nVidia, some people by ATI. Any input on which card(s) out there are a good deal for the money, but still relatively powerful? I'd be wiling to spend in the area of $400 on a new mobo + 1(2) cards.

3) Currently my CPU temps are ~45-50C when gaming, cores around ~55-60. My graphics card's temp sits slightly above that. If I were to upgrade to dual graphics cards or a single more powerful card, would I need to upgrade my cooling and/or PSU as well?

I'm kind of a computer newb, so I apologize in advance for any technical mistakes I made in typing this up. Any input is greatly appreciated.

[Olo401]

1) Not at the moment.. Crossfire/SLI isn't really used outside of applications like Folding@Home at the moment because there aren't games yet that are written to use its capabilities. For playing Crysis the ideal thing to do is get the fastest double-GPU card on the market, which at the moment is a nVidia GeForce GTX295 (or if you're more partial to ATI, the Radeon 4890x2), but you can get away with a single GPU GTX275 or Radeon 4890 and Crysis should run just fine.

2) For $400 you definitely won't be able to go dual-GPU + mobo unless you pick mid-range cards like a pair of GTX250s or Radeon 4770s. As far as which gpu maker to go with, the current crop of GeForce cards does run faster.

3) Sounds like you're using an Intel stock cooler in there. Switching that to any halfway-decent 120mm cooler and some good thermal goo will drop those idle temps 15-20 degrees & your load temps 5-15 degrees. Graphics cards are a different story - their heat threshold is higher by about 20 degrees (idle is acceptable at 65) so you should be OK there. What you should think about is how good the case airflow is... if you have a spot for an extra intake fan and you're worried about temps, put a fan in there. I even changed out my exhaust fan for one that could pump more of that hot air out of the case and it helped a lot.

[Isiolia]

You can do pretty well for the money with crossfire/sli configs these days. While you can still get single cards that'll outdo 'em, it can be cheaper to get a couple 4770s or even 4850s than a similarly (or even slightly lower) performing single card. The prices are always coming down or getting rebates though, so what might be a good buy one week might not be the next. IE, I put two 4850s in a machine for a friend a couple weeks ago that were $99/ea after rebate, coming in under a 4850x2 single card. Sans rebate, the better deal is the single card.

-However-

If your current mobo doesn't support that anyway, then the single card route would prove to be cheaper (or at least less troublesome). Generally speaking, multi-card solutions don't tend to have perfect support either.

Both nVidia and ATi are offering solid cards right now. nVidia does own the absolute top end, but you really pay for it. Best Graphics Cards For The Money: June '09 : May Review/June Updates - Review Tom's Hardware can give you a good idea of what's around, though as with anything like that, poke around a little before you actually buy.

In the past, you've had real value (or straight up performance) leaders, but right now the race is very close. Could look up specific games/engines if you have something you're really focused on.

I would also say to consider how your system is running as-is. An 8800GT isn't -great-, but it's still something one might buy for a budget gaming rig. If it's really falling short on what you're trying to run on it (have a larger monitor that you want to do native res on or something) then upgrade.
If you can wait, you'll only get better performance for less by doing so.

Crysis runs rather well on even a single 4850 if you're not trying to do 1920x1200 or something. Part of the consideration for graphics horsepower right now is the size of your LCD. A larger screen naturally takes more ooomph to fill at native res with all the bells n' whistles turned on.

[Jurgen]

Yea, the main reason I'd like a graphics upgrade is because I've recently started playing on my 42" HDTV, and the 8800GT has been not performing to where I'd like with the increased resolution. Thanks for the advice!

[Aikar]

This is what im looking to build >_>

Newegg.com - Once You Know, You Newegg

[Olo401]

Switch out the CPU cooler to a 120mm-fan model. Not saying the AC Freezer isn't a good cooler, but it was designed before the i7 came out and since there's been plenty of coolers that deal with the extra heat better & faster. ...and wouldn't even bother with the raptor drive. Regular drives are nearly as fast and SSDs will probably come down in price soon enough.

That case is NICE btw. Roomy.

[Solefald]

This is what im looking to build >_>

Newegg.com - Once You Know, You Newegg

Oh god, where to begin... Screw it, your build sucks and you should start over from scratch after doing some research into how to put together a cost-effective PC. -.-

I'll just comment on the monitor... I always laugh when people build a PC that has the power of a toroidal fusion reactor only to put a cheap piece of shit monitor on top of it all. If you're already willing to blow tons of money on a stupidly over-the-top gaming box, why not get a nice 24"+ LCD with lots of inputs, a good color gamut and viewing angles to go with it?

[Kurokikaze]

This is what im looking to build >_>

Newegg.com - Once You Know, You Newegg

Ok... Selecting the most expensive pieces that seem to work together is a shitty way to build a computer. And wtf @ the monitor?? You're gonna have all this 1337 shit and play at 1680x1050?

This is my next build (bare essentials only):
CPU: Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz (279.99)
Mobo: Foxconn FlamingBlade GTI (174.99)
GPU: Sapphire Radeon HD4850 X2 (249.99)
RAM: Corsair Reapers 2x2GB (99.99)
HDD: Seagate Barracude 7200RPM 1TB (89.99)
Case: Raidmax Aztec (89.99)

Total: $984.94
Theres some stuff that I can tweak from this build that will save me some cash and put the price at ~$800. It wont exactly spank your build but it'll come relatively close at less than half the price.

[Olo401]

Yeah.. and insulting someone like that is a real great way to convince them that their build needs some work? Good job.. and while we're on the subject you chose a POS Raidmax case over the HAF 932 Kuro?

[Cephius]

How about instead of insulting the build, you just offer advice?

He has every peripheral possible included at that cost, you can't compare it to a bare-bones build. His needs a little work and a better monitor, but it isn't as terrible as you're making it out to be.

[Kurokikaze]

Yeah.. and insulting someone like that is a real great way to convince them that their build needs some work? Good job.. and while we're on the subject you chose a POS Raidmax case over the HAF 932 Kuro?

I don't want to spend over 100 dollars on a tower. I've had Raidmax cases before and they've never failed me. But if thats the only flaw you see in that build, besides the obvious: (500w psu won't cut it. I have a 750w lying around somewhere.) then I guess thats not too bad. My only concern is whether or not the video card will fit nicely.

Ok Ceph. Lemme see what I can do... ; ;

[Akiyama]

I'm going with a Cooler Master 690 myself as I've heard tons of positives from it. That and I caught a lucky deal with newegg that had free shipping on it. If I had the money, I'd probably go with the CM HAF 922 that was released not too long ago.

As far as your build, Aikar.. yeah. There's tons of stuff you could go with that would cheapen the build, and if you were to go all out on that anyway, go with a way better looking monitor. Get a 30" for that bad boy, Haha.

[Kurokikaze]

Here we go... I tried to budget myself to $1500-1600.

Case: Cooler Master HAF 932 - 149.99
Went with this since you had it selected previously. While its a good case I personally would not spend.

CPU: Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz - 279.99
Currently best bang for the buck when it comes to i7 Processors. Downgrading to Core 2 Duo would require changing the mobo as well but will save you money.

Mobo: Foxconn Bloodrage GTI - 229.99
Decent motherboard with overall good features. While not as good, it has a Sonar X-Fi sound card so you don't have to get that Sound Blaster. You could also go with a cheaper board, something in the 150-200 price range would be good.

Ram: OCZ Reaper HPC 2x2GB - 73.99
6GBs of RAM is completely unnecessary.

HDD: Seagate Barracuda - 89.99
Few bucks cheaper than the HDD you had selected before.

GPU: Sapphire Radeon HD4850 X2 249.99
Sorry, I'm an ATI guy. This is another department where if you do some research you can probably save yourself a good 50-100 dollars.

PSU: Corsair CMPSU 750XT - 119.99
Could find something else.

Speakers: Logitech X-540 - 76.99
I think everyone and their moms has these... They're good.

Keyboard: Logitech G11 - 58.99
G15 is unnecessary and crappy. Not worth the cash.

DVD: LG 22X DVD-RW - 23.99
Can't go wrong with any DVD-RW atm.

Monitor: Asus VK246H - 239.99
This is where a lot of research should be made. The price is very nice for a 24in monitor but it doesn't have Component/Composite/S-Video input or Display Port (but that hasn't really taken off yet). Max resolution is 1920x1080 (16:9 ratio). You can throw an extra 100-200 and get a Dell 2408WFP or Gateway FHD2401. Depends on how many things you will end up connecting to the monitor.

Total: $1593.89

Hmm... I forgot a mouse. Fuck it. -_-;

[Solefald]

Ram: OCZ Reaper HPC 2x2GB - 73.99
6GBs of RAM is completely unnecessary.

DDR3 commonly comes in 6GB because it's triple channel.

[Boyiee]

more money then knowledge on what you're building is a bad thing.

[Olo401]

DDR3 commonly comes in 6GB because it's triple channel.

Actually you can get DDR3 in a 4gig kit and it will run in dual channel with the Core 2s & AM2+ Athlons/Phenoms. It's more common in 3/6/12 gig kits because Core i7s only work with DDR3 memory. It doesn't have to be triple channel though.

As far as how much memory you'll need in an i7 config, 3gigs of memory isn't gonna cut it after your system resources get their allocations and the OS is loaded - especially with a 1gig video card.. This is why 6gigs is necessary (unless you're only doing word processing and web browsing on your new gaming rig), and that also makes a 64-bit version of the OS necessary as well.

[Aikar]

Ok... Selecting the most expensive pieces that seem to work together is a shitty way to build a computer. And wtf @ the monitor?? You're gonna have all this 1337 shit and play at 1680x1050?

This is my next build (bare essentials only):
CPU: Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz (279.99)
Mobo: Foxconn FlamingBlade GTI (174.99)
GPU: Sapphire Radeon HD4850 X2 (249.99)
RAM: Corsair Reapers 2x2GB (99.99)
HDD: Seagate Barracude 7200RPM 1TB (89.99)
Case: Raidmax Aztec (89.99)

Total: $984.94
Theres some stuff that I can tweak from this build that will save me some cash and put the price at ~$800. It wont exactly spank your build but it'll come relatively close at less than half the price.

Yeah lets not forget I have a 200$ UPS, 80$ speakers, 180$ extra HDD, 40$ CPU cooler (see note below), 100$ sound card, 90$ keyboard, 150$ monitor

so 830$ in extra stuff, Your build is only roughly 380$ less.

Ok... Selecting the most expensive pieces that seem to work together is a shitty way to build a computer. And wtf @ the monitor?? You're gonna have all this 1337 shit and play at 1680x1050?

I did not even notice the resolution max... hmm..
Monitor was one the first things I selected when I was trying to budget myself around 1.5k, then I said fuck it going all out.

I'm still trying to be realistic on saving on some regard is why im not going crazy with 500$ GPU's and shit.

Anyways for monitor
switched that out for Newegg.com - Acer H243Hbmid 24" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 40000:1 Max (ACM) Built in Speakers - LCD Monitors

I really like to see good reviews especially on lcd monitors is why I picked the first one initially, and I was considering going dual monitor setup in future too.

Switch out the CPU cooler to a 120mm-fan model. Not saying the AC Freezer isn't a good cooler, but it was designed before the i7 came out and since there's been plenty of coolers that deal with the extra heat better & faster. ...and wouldn't even bother with the raptor drive. Regular drives are nearly as fast and SSDs will probably come down in price soon enough.

That case is NICE btw. Roomy.

Yeah someone noticed that last night and I just didn't remove from list yet.
Going with this now: Newegg.com - Vigor Monsoon III LT Dual 120mm Fan CPU Cooler Socket 1366 Ready - CPU Fans & Heatsinks

SSD is a little expensive really still, I'll consider that in future. For now I'm trying to be sensible on parts but still top end performance. Raptor I will be using for OS and games, and everything else onto the 1TB.

Try to play Vanguard: Saga of Heroes and you'll really see where HDD performance comes into play ~.~

I'm building this system cause i've had to deal with midrange for so damn long, now that I have a new good paying job, I can finally afford a PC rebuild, and so I want to go top of the line, future proof . I intend to do it on monthly payment, if newegg will fucking approve me for credit ;/ (my damn credit card is under my dads business, so it seems all my usage of it goes under his credit and my credit file is 'inadequate credit history'). neweggs plan is better than a credit card payment since no interest for 1 yr and no payments for 3 months too.

Also building a new badass network too
Newegg.com - Once You Know, You Newegg

will be running Smoothwall Express 3.0

[Elites]

Drop these 24 inch lcd monitors and go 1080p LCD TV's at 32 inches!

[Kurokikaze]

Ah I see. Then swap out the ram for OCZ Gold or Platinum 6GB kits. Its about 25-30 bucks more.

[Aikar]

or 70 bucks less you mean for exact same memory lol.
Newegg.com - OCZ Gold 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Voltage Desktop Memory Model OCZ3G1600LV6GK - Desktop Memory
however the corsair dominator has better heatsinks on it... dunno about for 70$ more though.

build updated and i get -90$ for combo on cpu/mb/case/psu so its
Subtotal: $2,201.26
Shipping: $34.59
Grand Total: $2,235.85

This baby will run everything for years >_> could add 2 more GTX275's in future and 6 more gb of ram

G15 is unnecessary and crappy. Not worth the cash.

I personally do not use the keys, I mainly use it for the LCD which is really useful.

I'm currently using a g15, but its old, wrist supports broke and taped back on, backlights not working. so i want to get a new one to clean it up.

BUT! thats only temporary. I want the G19 but newegg doesn't have it yet. So I'm going to get a new G15 until G19's come down some for that pretty color LCD!