"God did not create Universe!", says Hawking.

[Mayareira]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/image...is-hawking.jpg
- The Universe can create itself from nothing

There is no place for God in theories on the creation of the Universe, Professor Stephen Hawking has said.

He had previously argued belief in a creator was not incompatible with science but in a new book, he concludes the Big Bang was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics.

The Grand Design, part serialised in the Times, says there is no need to invoke God to set the Universe going.

"Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something," he concluded.

'Planetary conditions'

In his new book, an extract of which appears in the Times, Britain's most famous physicist sets out to contest Sir Isaac Newton's belief that the universe must have been designed by God as it could not have sprung out of chaos.
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Citing the 1992 discovery of a planet orbiting a star other than our Sun, he said: "That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions - the single Sun, the lucky combination of Earth-Sun distance and solar mass - far less remarkable, and far less compelling as evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings."

He adds: "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing.

"Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.

"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going."

The book was co-written by US physicist Leonard Mlodinow and is published on 9 September.

In his 1988 bestseller, A Brief History of Time, Prof Hawking appeared to accept the role of God in the creation of the Universe.

"If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we should know the mind of God," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11161493

[Maxwell]

Shocking discovery.

[Byrthnoth]

I am more shocked to find out that he ever didn't believe this than to find out that he believes it now. The reason also seems kind of stupid if what changed his mind was the discovery of a planet other than earth. I'm no astrophysicist, but there is nothing in our theory of planet formation that would suggest it is anything beyond probability, right?

[Fhqwghads]

Incoming shit storm. I don't know why people have to clutch desperately to fantasies like gods and such anyway. However, if it helps people get through life, more power to them. It's only a problem when they start harming each other over their beliefs. Anyway, this conversation should be entertaining.

[Meat]

if i didn't have a working dick I'd deny Jesus too

[Acturus]

"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going."

So, it's not that God doesn't exist, it's that the universe would still be here regardless.

[Draylo]

Incoming shit storm. I don't know why people have to clutch desperately to fantasies like gods and such anyway. However, if it helps people get through life, more power to them. It's only a problem when they start harming each other over their beliefs. Anyway, this conversation should be entertaining.

It's pretty obvious really. They clutch so desperately to those ideas because they are afraid of there being nothing when they die. Having that reassurance that if you are good or w/e in this world you will go to another place that is better, makes them feel good. If everyone thought there was nothing after death and what we did here doesn't matter, would be chaos.

As for the topic, idk, still doesn't make sense to me. Why would something just come out of nowhere? What made it possible to just come out of nowhere? Why does it even exist in the first place, too many questions.

[Holly Short]

It's pretty obvious really. They clutch so desperately to those ideas because they are afraid of there being nothing when they die. Having that reassurance that if you are good or w/e in this world you will go to another place that is better, makes them feel good. If everyone thought there was nothing after death and what we did here doesn't matter, would be chaos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55h1FO8V_3w

[Byrthnoth]

Well, by attributing it to physical laws he hasn't denied Thomas Aquinus' original (and still the best) intelligent design argument. He isn't denying the possibility of the existence of God as much as the need for him to be involved in the big bang.

The role of the god(s) has been retreating as science advances. We may some day remove the need to invoke gods for the purpose of understanding, but some people will always need to invoke them to rationalize and give meaning to their experiences.

Edit: realized I should give argument.
When Thomas Aquinus' experienced the world, he noticed that things occurred in a ordered way, as if it was following a set of rules. An ordered system requires a design, and a design necessitates a designer.
Basically, if a system is following a set of rules, it requires a designer. So even if the big bang is attributed to physical laws, those laws required a creator, or designer.
If you google Saint Thomas Aquinus' argument by design, you will likely find a better version than what I just wrote.

[Acturus]

The Patton Oswalt video brought up an interesting follow up:



Silliness

[Fhqwghads]

If everyone thought there was nothing after death and what we did here doesn't matter, would be chaos.

I'd like to think that should there ever be absolute proof that a god and afterlife don't exist, those of us who were already 99% sure there's no afterlife and no higher being(s) responsible for our existence would still put the morons in check who weren't committing atrocities out of fear of the repercussions that would happen after they die. Something like this can never be proved or disproved, so I suppose we're safe from those types of nutjobs anyway.

[Tsuko_Asura]

It's pretty obvious really. They clutch so desperately to those ideas because they are afraid of there being nothing when they die. Having that reassurance that if you are good or w/e in this world you will go to another place that is better, makes them feel good. If everyone thought there was nothing after death and what we did here doesn't matter, would be chaos.

As for the topic, idk, still doesn't make sense to me. Why would something just come out of nowhere? What made it possible to just come out of nowhere? Why does it even exist in the first place, too many questions.

Not that I'm disagreeing with your suggestion of why people readily cling to religion and other silliness, but your assertion that the inevitable outcome of a logical society is a world free of fear of consequence is extraordinarily far off, in my opinion. I mean, the easiest example I can cite is myself; I, as an agnostic atheist, do not believe in a god or any form of post-death existence(at least in terms of what the western world would call an "existence"). Does that mean I run around acting as I please without fear of consequence? Absolutely not. Whether or not my mind will flourish post-death, I'm here now, and I intend to enjoy life for what it is. Live in the present, and all that.

[Zhais]

I really don't personally understand that argumentation.

For me, because I don't believe there to be an afterlife of any sort, I actually value this life even more than when I did believe in a god. The idea of no afterlife means this is my one and ONLY chance at life, so therefore I'm gonna be as happy as I reasonably can and make it last for as long as possible. I want to believe that more people feel this way too, regardless of if there's a god or not. Yea, there would be chaos for a small while while the morons who can't wrap their head around that idea go crazy, but I hope society as a whole could accept that idea and still live on just fine.

[Fluid]

I'll try to ask this question without sounding like an apologist for religion, though I guess in this case it's pretty hard - but hear me out.

I have trouble with this "Spontaneous Creation" concept. It all boils down to a timeline of Nothing > ??? > Everything, right? I'll go along with the fact that the scientific explanations for the behavior of the universe after the point of creation seem to be the most likely ones, but claiming we've dis-proven religion with what we know now just seems like an arrogant jump in logic.

Again, stop me if I'm misunderstanding here, but it doesn't sound like we have a clear logical path from nothingness to the singularity that caused the big bang. And that's entirely reasonable - we're dealing with things so far beyond our means to observe and relying so heavily on our deductive abilities that we shouldn't expect an absolute answer.

I don't think we'll ever have a real explanation for first cause, and claiming certainty just seems irresponsible. I'd love to be enlightened if I'm wrong.

[dudeguy]

God just made it look that way, dont be a sheep to the lies of science people!

[Pirian]

I have trouble with this "Spontaneous Creation" concept. It all boils down to a timeline of Nothing > ??? > Everything, right?

This isn't correct - there isn't a ??? in the equation. The laws of physics clearly allow everything to be created from nothing during the Big Bang.

Again, stop me if I'm misunderstanding here, but it doesn't sound like we have a clear logical path from nothingness to the singularity that caused the big bang.

We actually do have a clear logical path "from nothingness to the singularity that caused the big bang." Granted, it's much higher physics than is taught in traditional schooling, but it is something that needs to be taught. This will probably never happen in the US though (lolcreationist). The general gist of it isn't even all that complicated, and boils down pretty easily without getting technical

[Sirenia]

I think it is hard for our minds to understand the concept of spontaneous creation. Just because you can't understand it does not mean it cannot be true. People created gods because they could not comprehend why the sun was rising. And now people still believe in creation because they can't try to understand something else.

[Hyan]

We actually do have a clear logical path "from nothingness to the singularity that caused the big bang." Granted, it's much higher physics than is taught in traditional schooling, but it is something that needs to be taught. This will probably never happen in the US though (lolcreationist). The general gist of it isn't even all that complicated, and boils down pretty easily without getting technical

Any links to where I could read about it?

[Atreides]

God may not have created the universe but I still believe he killed off the dinosaurs because of rampant tyrannosaurus homosexuality

[Pirian]

Any links to where I could read about it?

I'll try and find some links for you later, but for now I need to run to class, actually