Federal Sting Busts... 74 Year Old Woman... Selling Moon Rock

[Gwynplaine]

If you've ever wondered why the year 2011 doesn't remotely resemble the optimistic futures envisioned by sci-fi, here's one big reason why.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

http://hosted.ap.org/photos/3/3fc16e...471e61-big.jpg

As sure as cocaine and raw milk are prohibited from being sold, so too are moon rocks or any material resources obtained while in outer space.

Federal officials arranged a sting operation whereby they posed as NASA were interested in buying a tiny fragment of moon rock from an elderly 74 year old woman. They then met up at a Denny's restaurant and stormed the place with armed men, taking the woman and her fragment paper-weight.

Why the prohibition that relegates moon rocks to a black market? As the NASA investigator from the news article says: "Gutheinz said. "I've always taken the position that no one should own an Apollo-era moon rock. They belong to the people."

In other words the idea that a person can "own" a part of something from outer space is terrible and unthinkable. It's the same motivation behind the international law forbidding all private ownership or selling of resources obtained in space.

The whole thing is jaw dropping and ridiculous. So for now space will remain the pristine and untouched void of useless nothing. Ideally what should be done is to get rid of ownership prohibition and formulate some new and pioneering standards for how to establish property rights in space.

[Greatguardian]

Really?

A sting with armed officers is overkill for subduing a 74 year old woman, sure. But the idea that people can't own astronomical objects obtained by federally sanctioned space missions is somehow outrageous now?

The woman was trying to sell what was, essentially, public property.

[archibaldcrane]

Armed officers?

As opposed to? If they're going to arrest her, yeah, they're using officers - since that's who, ya know, arrests people. Are they EVER not armed?

[Silenka]

Sure, NOW outer space is a pristine wilderness that belongs to the people, but just wait until we have technology advanced enough to start carving it up in the name of corporations and countries. Colonialism ahoy!

[edit] oh, OP also argues this apparently, didn't notice. But yeah, I guess I agree with it staying 'for the people' for now. Would be nice if it could stay that way later, but with people already 'owning' stars (or at least buying their names) it's a slippery slope.

[Yuri-G]

Really?

A sting with armed officers is overkill for subduing a 74 year old woman, sure. But the idea that people can't own astronomical objects obtained by federally sanctioned space missions is somehow outrageous now?

The woman was trying to sell what was, essentially, public property.

didn't you read the article?? THIS IS WHY WE DON'T HAVE FLOATING CARS! according to the first line, anyway

[archibaldcrane]

Kinda sucks though - without a profit motive it really stymies private space exploration now that NASA's out of that game.

[Pirian]

I almost thought MaxTM made this thread.

[Niiro]

Sure, NOW outer space is a pristine wilderness that belongs to the people, but just wait until we have technology advanced enough to start carving it up in the name of corporations and countries. Colonialism ahoy!

[edit] oh, OP also argues this apparently, didn't notice. But yeah, I guess I agree with it staying 'for the people' for now. Would be nice if it could stay that way later, but with people already 'owning' stars (or at least buying their names) it's a slippery slope.

Yes, we would not want anyone monopolizing all of the solar system's valuable resources.

Spoiler: show

See: rocks and dust.

[Greatguardian]

Armed officers?

As opposed to? If they're going to arrest her, yeah, they're using officers - since that's who, ya know, arrests people. Are they EVER not armed?

The assumption based on how I read the OP's post was that they arrested her with weapons drawn. Of course the officers are always armed. I just realized that the OP paraphrased rather than actually quoting the article though =/ oops.

[Churchill]

The moon already has land plots sold afaik

[Correction]

It's probably illegal to own it since there are no legal ways to obtain it. Only one country has ever been there and there are long standing and strict controls on the handling of materials that are arguably the most expensive per-pound on the planet.

[Niiro]

The assumption based on how I read the OP's post was that they arrested her with weapons drawn. Of course the officers are always armed. I just realized that the OP paraphrased rather than actually quoting the article though =/ oops.

They call that sensationalism.

It's probably illegal to own it since there are no legal ways to obtain it. Only one country has ever been there and there are long standing and strict controls on the handling of materials that are arguably the most expensive per-pound on the planet.

Expensive yes, but not valuable.

[archibaldcrane]

It's probably illegal to own it since there are no legal ways to obtain it. Only one country has ever been there and there are long standing and strict controls on the handling of materials that are arguably the most expensive per-pound on the planet.

I was going to correct you, but shit I guess the ruskies never did actually have a manned landing eh?

silly russians

[Kaisha]

Here I was opening this thread thinking it would be about some old grandma getting busted for dealing drugs.

[Zalius]

how come we can buy stars but little old grannies cant sell moonrocks. fuck this species i want to roll something with jetpacks and teleporters

[Xno Kappa]

It's because of people like this I don't have my own gundam flying through space. Fuck you old lady.

[Gwynplaine]

Sure, NOW outer space is a pristine wilderness that belongs to the people, but just wait until we have technology advanced enough to start carving it up in the name of corporations and countries. Colonialism ahoy!

That would be great. I eagerly await the day I can go to the cheesy Futurama Moon Park.

Kinda sucks though - without a profit motive it really stymies private space exploration now that NASA's out of that game.

That's exactly my point. Unless or until it's made legal and protected to own resources or property outside of Earth, no one will bother.

The moon already has land plots sold afaik

I think that whole deal is some kind of fraud. There's a few weirdos who attempt to sell plots of land on other planets or asteroids for money. I'm pretty sure there was a news story a while ago about some dingbat who claimed she owned the moon because "she was the first one to think of it".

Explicitly and in law they cannot sell plots of land in such a way and no government would recognize it. But they will sure take your money anyways.

I think that the idea of property rights applied to space and other moons/planets is very interesting. It provides such an opportunity to think of something new. Very similar to the ingenuity of the Homestead Act in early America. In the case of Homesteading a legally recognized standard unit was set to be 160 acres, and it could be owned under the conditions a person lived on it for 5 years and made attempts to improve it.

Clearly at this point in time those same conditions can't apply, but it's still useful as a precedent. I think it's totally appropriate if the law were to set a standard finite unit of land. So for example a person or business couldn't just land on an unvisited planet, and simply claim "well were here first, we own the entire planet". Rather it should be limited to the scale an actual human being can attend to.

http://oi54.tinypic.com/2ic85qg.jpg

[solanis]

The moon already has land plots sold afaik

let's think this out logically. who owns the moon? who would they sell "the moon" to?

[Drex]

People dying every second all over the world and you couldn't care less, but someone's grandma gets a bruise during the confiscation of her illegally owned property and you're outraged? Oh dear. I hope a pretty white girl goes missing soon so you have another suitable outlet for your disgust prepared when this leak seals up.

[solanis]

watch out drex, you in danja gurl. can get banned on here for questioning people's priorities and sincerity about ~justice~ issues lolol