Syrian forces shoot down Turkish fighter, Turkey vows to retaliate

**Cail** · 2012-06-26 09:13

Turkey branded its former ally Syria "a clear and imminent threat," on Tuesday as its Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan vented his fury over the downing of a Turkish fighter jet.

In his most outspoken criticism of the Damascus regime, Erdogan vowed to retaliate against the "heinous act" and promised a change of military attitude to any Syrian officer approaching the common border.

"The rules of engagement of the Turkish Armed Forces have changed given this new development," Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told parliament following the shooting down of F-4 Phantom jet Friday. The two pilots are still missing.

Any risk posed by Syria on the Turkish border will be "considered a threat and treated as a military target," he said in a jam-packed room of lawmakers who frequently interrupted the address with applause.

Erdogan said his government would retaliate "with determination" and take what he called the "necessary steps by determining the time, place and method by itself".

The prime minister said Turkey's military jet violated the Syrian airspace for a short time and "by mistake" and repeated that it was unarmed, flying solo when it was shot down by Syria "without a single warning."

"We did not receive a single warning, note from Syria (regarding airspace violation)...They acted without warning. This is a hostile act," Erdogan said.

Erdogan said that Turkish airspace had been violated 114 times by military aircraft from different countries, including Syria, since January 1, 2012.

"Syrian helicopters violated our airspace five times. These were short-term violations," to which Turkey issued the necessary warnings, Erdogan noted.

"This latest development shows that the Assad regime has become a clear and imminent threat to the security of Turkey, as well as for its own people," he added.

Erdogan broke with former friend and ally Assad, whom he called "a bloody dictator," after unrest that erupted mid-March last year met a bloody response from Damascus, sending more than 33,000 refugees into Turkey.

"Turkey will support Syrian people in every way until they get rid of the bloody dictator and his gang," he said on Tuesday.

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**Brill Weave** · 2012-06-26 10:44

"The rules of engagement of the Turkish Armed Forces have changed given this new development," Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told parliament following the shooting down of F-4 Phantom jet Friday. The two pilots are still missing.

It is absolutely amazing to me that these are still in use. Also says something about the state of Turkey's Air Force. And as to why their air space has been violated as much as it has been.

**Dantrag** · 2012-06-26 10:45

Aren't F-4 the planes we used in Vietnam? The ones at the time that were 2 pilots next to each other and no guns?

**BaneTheBrawler** · 2012-06-26 11:16

Well, pretty sure the crew sits in-line, but otherwise yeah.

**archibaldcrane** · 2012-06-26 11:37

Shot down with a missile or AAF from the ground or by another airplane?

**BaneTheBrawler** · 2012-06-26 11:43

SAM seems most likely to me. AA guns are usually placed around important locations and require a visual, airplanes take a while to scramble. SAM sites have the range and response time I would imagine to be necessary for a short accidental incursion.

**Brill Weave** · 2012-06-26 11:54

I seriously can't get over that. The F-4 was rolled out in the late 50's or very early 60's. We're talking about a plane design that's over 50 years old. Are they sure it didn't just fall apart in midair?

**archibaldcrane** · 2012-06-26 12:17

Well, we were using the same one of these:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...iRes-edit1.jpg
for 30 years...

**Salodin** · 2012-06-26 12:21

If maintained, they're fine. Sure they can't handle themselves against the US and our Raptors, but against other arab nations, it's still top of the line lol.

**Brill Weave** · 2012-06-26 12:24

Touche Arch. The only thing I can figure is that they might be using it as a trainer or something? Nope nevermind, just looked at their active aircraft. Looks like the F-4's and F-16's make up the bulk of their air force.

**Brill Weave** · 2012-06-26 12:26

If maintained, they're fine. Sure they can't handle themselves against the US and our Raptors, but against other arab nations, it's still top of the line lol.

Compared to the Syrian Air Force they aren't even close to top of the line. Can't say for the other arab nations. Syria is rolling with the Russian MIG series and are fairly up to date.

**BaneTheBrawler** · 2012-06-26 12:42

It's a very versatile aircraft, especially the later models, which actually have built in guns. For the ones that still don't, back during the Vietnam War they came up with a gun pod that it could carry on one of its ordnance racks.

Sure, it's not top-of-the-line, but since planes in modern warfare are mostly just mobile missile/bomb platforms, as long as it has modern ordnance, it can still compete. It's just not going to be winning any gunfights, which rarely happen anyway.

**Salodin** · 2012-06-26 13:35

Originally Posted by BaneTheBrawler

It's a very versatile aircraft, especially the later models, which actually have built in guns. For the ones that still don't, back during the Vietnam War they came up with a gun pod that it could carry on one of its ordnance racks.

Sure, it's not top-of-the-line, but since planes in modern warfare are mostly just mobile missile/bomb platforms, as long as it has modern ordnance, it can still compete. It's just not going to be winning any gunfights, which rarely happen anyway.

Yeah, I thought modern gunfights were extremely rare/never happen.

**Dantrag** · 2012-06-26 13:48

Originally Posted by BaneTheBrawler

Well, pretty sure the crew sits in-line, but otherwise yeah.

I was actually thinking of the A-6 Intruder and not the F-4.

http://webspace.webring.com/people/vu/um_1452/maina.jpg

**Churchill** · 2012-06-26 15:53

F-4 engines are also ridiculously powerful, the plane's design holds it back quite a bit.

**Zilong** · 2012-06-27 00:02

Originally Posted by Dantrag

I was actually thinking of the A-6 Intruder and not the F-4.

http://webspace.webring.com/people/vu/um_1452/maina.jpg

Is that a plane with a fricking laser beam attached to its head?

**ronin sparthos** · 2012-06-27 00:29

Originally Posted by Brill Weave

I seriously can't get over that. The F-4 was rolled out in the late 50's or very early 60's. We're talking about a plane design that's over 50 years old. Are they sure it didn't just fall apart in midair?

Thanks for the well needed laugh.

**Indalecia** · 2012-06-27 02:14

Originally Posted by Zilong

Is that a plane with a fricking laser beam attached to its head?

Thats the refueling station

**test123** · 2012-06-27 02:14

What if the Aircraft violated israel airspace and was shot down, would NATO bomb israel then?

**Mazmaz** · 2012-06-27 02:51

What convenient timing. War starts with Turkey, everyone forgets about the Syrian citizens and also all opposition to the regime is removed.

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