Assorted information about Sea Jailers

[rithridan]

The name of the topic pretty much sums up the question. I've been looking all over for info on the tier2 jailers before giving them a try. I know that the tier1 jailers are immune to certain enfeebles. However I can't find any similar information regarding the tier2 jailers. I thought I'd ask in here so maybe the wiki can be updated with this information for other newcomers aswell.

The reason why I'm asking it here instead of going out there and finding out myself by popping a tier2 jailer is because my LS does not have that many people online at the same time so we usually end up somewhere between 10-14 people. We don't have much room for error and need to be extra prepared so we don't get many surprises during the fight.

Some resources I've looked through:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Special...?search=jailer
http://promathia.runtimerepairs.com/...rs.html#TierII
http://www.jediknightsofsiren.com/ph...=display&jid=5
http://shadow-knights.net/cs/forums/thread/16322.aspx

(Edit: Changed topic name to reflect discussion of the thread)

[Kaylia]

I know I'm not answering your question directly, but here is what we use for the jailer. For the debuff, I believe you you can't silence/grav/bind/sleep/stun (shadowbind work). Almost certain slow/para/elegy work tho, but I have no clue what's the resist rate. I can't imagine it being too bad because I never heard any rdm complain about it

Hope
Ninx2, rdm, brd, whm, blm can kill Hope "easily" (need to not let anything slip, and thunder charol+bar might help). If you had more blm, it's going to make the fight shorter and easier, but it's easily manageable. I recommand having your blm sub nin for this one in case they pull hate, you can tank it quite easily on any /nin job. Careful with silence Aoe and long LoS move

Prudence
Prudence is a joke as well. I never killed it with 6, but I'm positive it could be done. Have a thief PD on pop and kite one in front of the mission tower where 3 Aern were popped. You should find a huge tree that can be used for kiting. The rest of the party provoke one Prudence off the THF, and hold it it until the first one is out of range (if you give it tp when its still close, they are going to hate reset/warp). To kill it, if you have under 12 people, I recommand kiting it around the closest tree and nuke/bio to death.
Again, have your blm sub nin on this one, because it hit kinda hard and will triple when its mouth is opened (triple --> utsu ni is the easiest way to stay alive until someone else pull hate. blink/stoneskin simply doesnt cut it). His AoE is also blinkable

Justice
Beside JoL, it's the one that require the most people because of the pet. 4blm/1brd/1rdm should be able to handle the add forever if they are good at mp management. Even if you have less than 18, I don't recommand adding them to the main alliance to prevent mijin from hurting everyone. The main alliance should have at least 2 tank with earth staff (or good sleeper) to prevent charm. Can probably be done with less than 14, but I never tried and dont want to risk it.


Those are the easiest to execute strats imo...unless I overlooked something.

[Yutuyu]

As far as hope goes, he's really easy. Its basically exactly like a Shijin Fight out of sky. Extremely comparable. Get two blinks, sata them and rotate hate, watch the status effects on your tanks, and make sure your melee DDs are smart enough to get out of range when at low HP so that they don't die.

[rithridan]

Thanks a lot for these useful tips. I remember seeing a thread with the least amount of people needed for jailers as subject where I saw that people needed close to or more then 12+ for any tier2 Jailer. Instead we got over our "do not want to lose pop set due to wipe" fears and we did our first Jailer of Hope yesterday evening with 9 characters (7 players) and won :D

[edit] whoops, was yesterday not today

[Kaylia]

Grats! JoH is the easiest of the bunch, but it's a good start You can most likely tackle JoPrudence with the same setup, but that fight require a lot more coordination on the pull and it's easy to screw up. Not to mention JoPrudence multiples glitch.

I would understand people fearing to lose pop item back in the day when you had to kill 9 fortitude and 4 ix'drk to see one JoJ (who had 25% drop rate on his virtue)...but it's too easy now. Everything but Temperance can be done with 2-3people, and temperance itself is a joke to pop anyway

[rithridan]

The rate at which we are getting pop items is pretty slow because we have big competition and only do Sea once a week. During the time we do our Sea event there is a large French LS which does Sea with roughly twice the amount of people (about 30ish). Most of the time they are either luckier then us or faster then us to the pop (them popping Ix'DRK while we don't get animosity, JoT popping on their Zdei instead of ours, etc.) also GS seem to be pretty active in Sea on our server nowadays. I mean, we are lucky if we kill one Jailer/Aern per event (our events last for about 3 to 4 hours). Yesterday after JoH when most people went to bed I took a few BLMs to Ix'DRG only to see a couple of french players manaburning it. We tried to pop it afterwards but didn't get much luck unfortunately. On the bright side, we have a crazy taru who spends most of his time duo'ing Ix'MNK, so at least we are getting plenty of deeds from that.

[Turin]

temperance itself is a joke to pop anyway

This statement makes me very sad.

[Kaylia]

temperance itself is a joke to pop anyway

This statement makes me very sad.

- A BLM should be able to reach any tower solo using the West entrance (/nin or /rdm...he will be useless for the fight on /nin tho, but it's easier to navigate in sea and solo monsters with that sj)
- North tower is the hardest to reach
- Temperance is almost always up at one of the 5 tower
- Temperance despawn 3min after being inactive at his home point

Send the alliance to north tower, and have 4 BLM or RDM solo the Zdei in the other 4 towers. It should pop on your first or 2nd wave. Assuming it pop in one of the BLM tower, he can easily hold it 5min to give time to the alliance to get there. ES+gravity and zone at the elevator. 2minutes and half after it reach his homepoint, try gravitying it and kite it in the room until you die, reraise, put reraise up again and repeat if needed.

If it pop at mithra, alliance can simply run back. Have a dedicated sleeper sleep everything on the way and logout hate on the other side
If it pop at Taru or Elvaan, escape and run directly there.
If it pop at Galka, escape, take West entrance and path back through the area sleeping everything. It can be done in 5minutes, and it's the longest path next to hume tower.

The rate at which we are getting pop items is pretty slow because we have big competition and only do Sea once a week. During the time we do our Sea event there is a large French LS which does Sea with roughly twice the amount of people (about 30ish). Most of the time they are either luckier then us or faster then us to the pop (them popping Ix'DRK while we don't get animosity, JoT popping on their Zdei instead of ours, etc.) also GS seem to be pretty active in Sea on our server nowadays. I mean, we are lucky if we kill one Jailer/Aern per event (our events last for about 3 to 4 hours). Yesterday after JoH when most people went to bed I took a few BLMs to Ix'DRG only to see a couple of french players manaburning it. We tried to pop it afterwards but didn't get much luck unfortunately. On the bright side, we have a crazy taru who spends most of his time duo'ing Ix'MNK, so at least we are getting plenty of deeds from that.

Rate at which you get pop item is probably slow because you arent farming sea the correct way. Inside jailers imo should be farmed by 2blm 1rdm or something similar at random time. It's not that hard to find dedicated people for it, especially with the possible cape/torque reward.

It would give you a lot more time for the 2nd tier NM.


Fortitude
1rdm/nin + 1 blm/nin can kill in 30minutes (rdm could solo, but bio kill a 20k hp nm isnt that fun). Rdm buff himself pop and train to zone. After everything unaggro, pull it solo to any tower (pick a different one to not reaggro the ghrah) and kite like you do for every NM. /nin to counter spell reflect. Every 1000dmg nuke should shave 5% off his max hp. Having 2 blm here really help

Faith
2blm-3blm, 1rdm: kite and nuke. Don't stop moving when you know he is about to cast a spell (he is casting at regular interval) and bounce it. /nin win again with rdm/whm

Ix'drk
Can pop with 2-3ppl manaburn, pull to zone and separate them. 1 person can solo/kite it at any tower (I can solo in 30minutes on BLM/NIN without gaiters using bio + drain + aspir), the other 2 should kill Qn'Aern, and go help the kiter after

Ix'Drg
Pop it with 3-4 ppl manaburn (8k xp/hours), disband before it aggro (or zone at the exact same time if it did aggro and you want to lose hate). After that, everyone nuke once and zone. One person is in charge of bio/dia and keep it on all the time (don't forget you can't recast bio over bio...need to wait for it to wear off). At 5-10%, ally and everyone nuke together to finish it.

Ix'mnk
Single pop = 5-10% drop on cape, 10-20% drop on Deed
Triple pop = 100% drop on deed, unless you get cape (which is still something like that 5-10%)
Whoever is pulling disband, pop the nm and train it to the ebon panel tower where the rest of party wait. He can try to zone at the elevator, or simply die near the group. Qn (if you popped them) should be far behind since both are spellcaster, and every other non NM aern will unspawn. Grab the NM after the puller die, or when it path back if he zoned.
Can be duo'd if both player are good, but 3-4 blm alone will make this fight a joke. Just be careful when you pull hate to not get one shotted. One healer make the fight much more safer, and /nin on blm is recommande.


Temperance
Uses the strategy I posted above to pop it. For the kill, doing it with less than 6 is too risky imo. War/war/war/whm/rdm/brd work if people don't suck at trading hate, but having more healer will make thing a lot easier. 10 is usually the minimum I would bring for a smooth fight

Trying to pop anything other than temp inside with a full party is a waste of time, xp and chance to get an item. It's also discouraging when nothing pop with 12 people around.

[rithridan]

Prudence
Prudence is a joke as well. I never killed it with 6, but I'm positive it could be done. Have a thief PD on pop and kite one in front of the mission tower where 3 Aern were popped. You should find a huge tree that can be used for kiting. The rest of the party provoke one Prudence off the THF, and hold it it until the first one is out of range (if you give it tp when its still close, they are going to hate reset/warp). To kill it, if you have under 12 people, I recommand kiting it around the closest tree and nuke/bio to death.
Again, have your blm sub nin on this one, because it hit kinda hard and will triple when its mouth is opened (triple --> utsu ni is the easiest way to stay alive until someone else pull hate. blink/stoneskin simply doesnt cut it). His AoE is also blinkable

We ended up trying for Prudence yesterday but things didn't really go the way we intended it to. For one, we didn't have a thf and used a rdm/nin with w.legs instead. He noticed that even with w.legs, Prudence was about as fast (or faster) as he was. Another thing was that he lost aggro even though we had nobody cast any spells other then flash(pld) on the other Prudence. You mentioned not giving him TP, does this include not getting hit by him?

Second time we tried it was nighttime and we had a nin who would go with the rdm/nin to kite it in a duo (him having +25% movement). This time when the rdm/nin popped one of the Prudences attack the nin without him doing anything (according to him), this didn't make any sense to us either considering that he did not do any action to the Prudence at all. Still even with +25% movement speed the nin mentioned not even being able to outrun the Prudence. All this indicates to us that Prudence moves faster then a normal Hpemde but other sources say otherwise. We saved our last set for when we have some more information about it and hopefully our main thf to kite with.

[Judai]

Temperance
Uses the strategy I posted above to pop it. For the kill, doing it with less than 6 is too risky imo. War/war/war/whm/rdm/brd work if people don't suck at trading hate, but having more healer will make thing a lot easier. 10 is usually the minimum I would bring for a smooth fight

Trying to pop anything other than temp inside with a full party is a waste of time, xp and chance to get an item. It's also discouraging when nothing pop with 12 people around.

3xBLU/nin,RDM,BRD,WHM absolutely Destroy Temp.

[Kaylia]

I guess I should have mentioned it in my post (this is why I said thief), but Prudence go to Flee speed when he uses Perfect Dodge. I'm not exactly sure what trigger it, but he will use it at the start at time and rape the puller if you arent using a thief on PD. I know it won't always open with flee, but I learned it the hard way on my 2nd pulls when I popped with BLM (thinking I could kite). If you manage to get it to the bush, it should never use his special unless it's taking some dmg.

There is many mechanics I don't understand about Prudence, so I can't really say why one aggroed the nin. We usually have most of the alliance stand far enough from (30-40distances) to prevent any form of shared aggro or weird behavior (ie: untargetable prudence). The Thief perfect dodge, trade, and flee away. Someone pull one of the hpemde while the thief is kiting the 2nd one. You would need to get hit something like 10-13 times to give him enough TP, so I doubt it's the problem here. Rdm would normally be far enough by the time it happen anyway. Alliance probably just had some sorte of shared hate, and hate decay due to getting hit made it go back to someone else.

I've seen it unagro once when THF outran them, but never seen it unagro while the one THF who popped them was kiting.


It's possible to recuperate from any wipe in sea if someone is willing to use a RR hairpin (or spell) over and over every 2min30. If the rest of the alliance reraise fast, you can usually get a second chance without losing pop item or much xp (3-4k usually by the time everyone unweaken). Anyway, sorry if I made it sound too easy in my earlier post. The pull is the hard part of the fight, and there is a ton of factor that can go wrong. Our first 3 attempts ended in a failure long time ago because of little details like this, but every other pop since then worked well.

3xBLU/nin,RDM,BRD,WHM absolutely Destroy Temp.

Back in my day, we didnt have those fancy ToA jobs...but yeah, didnt think about that lol.

[rithridan]

It's possible to recuperate from any wipe in sea if someone is willing to use a RR hairpin (or spell) over and over every 2min30. If the rest of the alliance reraise fast, you can usually get a second chance without losing pop item or much xp (3-4k usually by the time everyone unweaken). Anyway, sorry if I made it sound too easy in my earlier post. The pull is the hard part of the fight, and there is a ton of factor that can go wrong. Our first 3 attempts ended in a failure long time ago because of little details like this, but every other pop since then worked well.

Another thing that we noticed is that Prudence does not walk(swim, heh) back to its ??? unlike other NMs do (Ix'Aerns,JoFaith). Made it kind of hard to keep it because of all the sharks and ufos that are near the tower which was usually where someone ends up before they die.

We didn't expect it to be easy in the least (though we were surprised at how easy JoH is). We still have one more pop set we decided to save to be a little bit more prepared next time. Thanks for all the tips

[Ruth]

Temperance
Uses the strategy I posted above to pop it. For the kill, doing it with less than 6 is too risky imo. War/war/war/whm/rdm/brd work if people don't suck at trading hate, but having more healer will make thing a lot easier. 10 is usually the minimum I would bring for a smooth fight

Trying to pop anything other than temp inside with a full party is a waste of time, xp and chance to get an item. It's also discouraging when nothing pop with 12 people around.

3xBLU/nin,RDM,BRD,WHM absolutely Destroy Temp.

BLU/NIN (needs to have W.Legs), RDM/NIN, SMN/NIN - BLU keeps hate with Cures and DDs with Disseverment, Hysteric Barrage and Vertical Cleave (Slashing, Blunt, and Piercing respectively). RDM is refresh/DoT/buff whore and Gravs ONLY when theres trouble. SMN DD with appropiate avatar depending on Temp's mode. Should not DD and kite only when he is in Blunt mode to avoid Optic induration (name? petrify move). 30-45m highly skilled BLU needed.
Do this a lot and it's possible to recover if any one of the group dies.

[Kaylia]

Another thing that we noticed is that Prudence does not walk(swim, heh) back to its ??? unlike other NMs do (Ix'Aerns,JoFaith). Made it kind of hard to keep it because of all the sharks and ufos that are near the tower which was usually where someone ends up before they die.

We didn't expect it to be easy in the least (though we were surprised at how easy JoH is). We still have one more pop set we decided to save to be a little bit more prepared next time. Thanks for all the tips

It's not much harder than JoH once you separate them. (less hp,both are individually weaker and can be kited)



There isnt so many shark/ufo on the way to the tree. You can avoid them by hugging the east wall usually, but one UFO stand close to it at time. In worse case, just send a RDM or blm to sleep/log them if they aggro the puller
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/9...altaieugu1.jpg

[Kaylia]

Popped prudence again today. Detailed description of our fight

Tank pt: pld/nin x2, brd, rdm, whm, thief
Black mage party: Blm/nin x5 + rdm

1) Everyone stand at 40 distance from the spawn. Thief get mambo from brd, trade the pop item, uses perfect dodge, mug one Hpemde, uses flee and pull it away.
2) The PLD flash the one that wasn't mugged and hold it 20sec without giving it any tp. The thief bring the mugged one to the bush marked in the map above, and kite it around forever. It's easy to never get hit, since pathing around those is awful (can outrun them on flee mode)
3) Alliance fight normally after. Every unresisted blm nuke takes around 5%hp, goes down in 5-6minutes
4) Everyone run to the thief, rest full and start nuking after. Pld are pretty much useless for that part, since blm can easily kite it when they pull hate.


We manaburned one phuabo and one om'yovra close to spawning point to avoid aggro, but it's not necessary. 2 BLM died after pulling hate, but they are expandable (especially if they put RR on). Mp was never an issue, and 1 pld/nin could probably tank it fine...just a bit painful when it use perfect dodge/open his mouth and spam triple attack.

In the worse case, 2blm/nin could probably kill prudence alone by kiting it around the closest tree near pop point (in the water south west). You just need to kill the one phuabo there (any blm/nin can solo that). I'm kinda empted to try trioing it with THF+ BLM + BLM. Thief can hold one forever, and 2 prudent BLM can duo one around any bushes.

[Highlulu]

question about fortitude, i was trying this earlier today and for the life of me i could not seperate fortitude from his 2 grahs.

do i need to keep them in range till they try to cast something then zone? or just zone with them out of link range?

[Kaylia]

Zone them while they are out of link range. If there is a certain distance between the ghrah and Fortitude, they won't link when you pull it. Since pet have shared hate with fortitude, you need to wait for all 3 mobs to completely unagro before pulling it (well, that's what I do and it always work).

Because both pet are casting spells on the way, Fortitude should always be far ahead when it get to the zone, making the pull easy.

[Gerion]

Our group tried that method of Prudence, but things got hairy due to something not mentioned. Someone was kiting Prudence #2 around the bush like normal, but when Prudence used Perfect Dodge, he immediately did his teleportation thing and landed on the kiter, on the far side of the bush. How is it suggested to deal with that if one does not have Flee up to get to the other side of the bush?

[Kaylia]

It's not suposed to use perfect dodge if it's not taking dmg as far as I know. Did anyone put dot or did some damage? Was the kiter getting hit, got healed or something? Normally, we kite it the whole time without ever getting hit, and it won't do anything but follow.

Anyway, there isnt much to do about the teleport, but I think you should be able to outrun it if you keep running around the tree/bush in the water in the location I posted, even when it's on flee.

[rithridan]

We just did Prudence again and this time we kicked booty. One thing to note is that if you kite prudence too close to the edge of the bush he will either clip into it and just make a straight line to you or (what seems like) hit you while being on the other side of the bush.

Many tarus dropped and not many torques