New WeaponSkill Chart

[Psymia]

Hello there
After getting some response in the Advanced Player Discussion i was told i should post this here.
Link to the old thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24781

I've been working, the last half year or so, on a new WS Chart.
--> http://psymia.mine.nu
About 3 Years ago when i first started to get interrested in WS's i found a file called wse.pdf
I've used that one ever since.
But over the time and with new expansions comming out this chart is a bit outdated.
So i made a new one.
One thing i ever wanted to be in a WS-Chart is to be able to "see" how "good" a WS is. Not "good" in the sense of "this WS gives this and this effect" but more the "RAW-dmg-good". I'm still missing BLU-Magic DMG and Staff-DMG.
SMN is in the works (doing lots of tests with a friend)

I'd be happy about every feedback i can get.

http://psymia.mine.nu


Some preventive explanations about feedback i already got:
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About the size.
I know it's big, but i dont think it's too big to be impractical.
The size is so that it fits well on an A3.
You can print it on an A4 and still can read it. (But your printer need's to be good enought)

For those who dont have a Color-printer.
A black/white version will come as soon as the dmg-stuff is finished.

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About the layout.
Upperside --> DD / Advanced Class Weapons.
Middle Part --> SMN / PUP / BLU
Lower Part --> Weapons everyone starts with (Club, Staff, Sword, Dagger)

The rest i just fitted in where i could (like archery/markmanship)
I also had some problems with arranging the WS's that have 3 elements (now all in the left column)

------------------------------------------------
The DMG-part is purely the RAW-DMG a WS does. Not how well it performs within a SC or how good it is if you stack it with SA.
I know that with different TP multis differnt WS's are differntly "good".
I just didnt know how i could put them so you can see it.
In the first beta i had every MOD and every TP-multiplier in the chart (you can think it was BIG....)
I hope someday i find a solution to how i can display it without wasting too much space.

I thought about leaving the dmg part out.
But if you're planning a SC and dont really know how "good" a WS is, it helps to have a "vague" pointer.
Maybe i have to put in a note that the dmg-indicator is not to be seen too serious.

-----------------------------------------------------
I know there are SC-calculators (i use the firefox extension myself).
I just dont like them :D
I just think i can display more information in a more readable way than with a calculator.
(And a chart does not need... you know.. power to run )

[Okuza]

Your chart is missing the level-2 links for the "level 3" weapon skils; eg. you can do gravitation->fragmentation for fragmentation and yet your chart doesn't show that. Your chart is also pretty much too tiny to read after printing.

Here's a link to may favorite single-page printable WS chart. I particularly like the nice concise "skillchain chart" and the monster weaknesses (I'm not a blm, so I don't have those memorized): http://ffxi.lokyst.net/misc/wschart.pdf

[Psymia]

uhm what do you mean my chart does not show the lvl2-->lvl2 effects?

dont you see the arrow going from:
gravitation --> fragmentation (left side)
fragmentation --> distortion (lower part)
distortion --> fusion (right side)
dusion --> gravitation (upper part)
?

As i wrote: it's intented to print out on an A3 not A4!
You can print it on A4 but then you have the problem that it's too small (but still readable).

[Okuza]

I love that you have things the other char is missing: avatar, puppet, blu, & relics. I like the effect notes, too. I could care less about the damage notes. If I want a renkei, I don't want it for it's own damage but for a it's MB potential. I assume that each job pretty much knows it's best WS. Actually, these days, that's often the ONLY ws each job knows. ; ;

Skillchain chart change is a huge step backwards from the one in the pdf I posted (and the one I think you're working off of as an original). After intense study, I see that you do have the level 2 links. I guess my brain just edited out the extra doubled L3s as pointless -- why have two boxes when one works better? I don't see what adding 8 new boxes and more space does over the original, especially since you've got the level3's in two different spots entirely now. Your eye can't just locate THE gravitation box or THE fragmentation, it now has to hunt it down in two entirely separate spots to see what works with it.

The original "skillchain chart" diagram in the link I posted is just amazingly concise and clear. Could even leave off the ice/water/stone/dark for darkness /etc for light table. The colors work fine. IMHO, remember that a one-page chart is a mnemonic aid, not an instructional tool. You're not teaching people how to do things, but providing a quick glance for "oh yeah, that's how it links" or "that's what it does".

I really miss the weakness chart from the original, too. That's just invaluable when setting up a renkei for leveling a lowbie job after having spent months and months spamming ws's in merit parties. "Oh, yeah, crabs are weak to ice, let's do distortion!"

-=-=-

BTW, I also wanted to say that I think making a table like this is a wonderful thing to do for the people that play this game. I hope I don't sound overly critical to the point of discouraging you. That's just honest feedback on what I'd like to see on such a page. You're the one spending your time on this, it should work for you before working for others! ^^

[Psymia]

I didnt base it on the file you posted.
I made it based on the file that is on my page as "wse.pdf"

Personally i think the one you posted is a bit more compact but on cost of the readability.
But in the end it doesnt matter. Imho it's all about preferences and "being used" to.

[Keston]

The BLU WSs and the EX parts are nice on your chart. Though the clutter of alot of these charts I've found to be the biggest hinderance in trying to read/understand them. One of the charts that I've found not so jumbled and easier to read/understand is : http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/feyda/renkei5.gif (i have it saved at home, not sure what site/page it originates from, just did a google search from work today).

[Amele]

aden's chart is the only chart for me. fits on an 8.5x11 and lists just about everything you need these days (skill, blue magic, pets, relics.)

[Sechs]

aden's chart is the only chart for me. fits on an 8.5x11 and lists just about everything you need these days (skill, blue magic, pets, relics.)

I wish Aden could release a version of his chart WITHOUT the stupid 3D effects in the background, they really suck. I would just like to have a coloured solid background, no stupid graphics.

[Sechs]

One of the charts that I've found not so jumbled and easier to read/understand is : http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y224/feyda/renkei5.gif (i have it saved at home, not sure what site/page it originates from, just did a google search from work today).

Imho the chart with the easiest layout to understand level 3 and level 2 skillchains etc, was Alvehyanna's chart.

But it was full of errors, and there were several missing things. She never bothered to update it and slowly build it into a good alternative to Aden's because probably she wasn't getting support... Aden's was too excellent and she got discouraged. It's a shame because imho it was uber easy to use, even for all those people who aren't very comfortable/knowledgeable with the several primary/secondary/tertiary element of WSs.