Is this legal?

[Obiron]

I know BG likes discussing legal situations, so here's one for you:

I'm sitting at work right now watching out my window at a little sting operation. One cop is wearing civilian clothing and crossing the street over and over at the crosswalk while 3 other cops watch and chase down anyone that doesn't stop for him. Is this entrapment? They're totally creating a distraction by having this gathering of cops, then ticketing the people that don't notice the guy crossing the street.

Oh, and now one of the motorcycle cops is driving on the sidewalk... I'm sure that's perfectly legal...

[Kaliden]

I don't think it is legal. If you can you should probably record whats going on, you never know what this could turn into.

[Acturus]

One of the local radio stations in my area was discussing this last night with an attorney doing pro bono work by answering legal questions on the air.

A situation is defined as entrapment, according to this attorney, when the officer actively encourages you to break the law by suggesting that you do so.

A person walking up to an undercover cop and soliciting sex acts is not entrapment.

A person being instructed by an undercover cop to stand on a street corner and offer sex acts is.

The definition came in response to a caller asking if cops were really allowed to drive around in not only unmarked police vehicles, but non-traditional police vehicles (i.e. minivans, 4x4 trucks, etc.) The caller asked because he was pulled over by a Dodge Ram with normal paint and a towing hitch attached, and he thought that having the towing hitch attached somehow meant the cop wasn't allowed to pull him over.

And remember that cops aren't necessarily held responsible for any distractions that happen. Oftentimes a roadway accident that is moved well off the shoulder will still cause onlooker delays because people are drawn to the flashing lights of the police cars.

[Obiron]

My boss suggested the same thing (we're watching from his window, it's nice to kill time and know you won't be in trouble ). All I have is a camera phone, so I might just have to try making short recordings until I catch a ticket in action. We were talking about calling a news station, but we weren't sure if it was illegal/ media worthy.

Great, now they're leaving. Well, maybe we'll have to watch for it again, and at least we know what day/time it happened if it is worth reporting.

Edit:

The definition came in response to a caller asking if cops were really allowed to drive around in not only unmarked police vehicles, but non-traditional police vehicles (i.e. minivans, 4x4 trucks, etc.) The caller asked because he was pulled over by a Dodge Ram with normal paint and a towing hitch attached, and he thought that having the towing hitch attached somehow meant the cop wasn't allowed to pull him over.

True story, I was with my friend when he got pulled over by a D.A.R.E. cop (I assume that's a nationwide program, you know the cops that go to elementary schools to tell kids to stay off drugs) in a minivan. We had broken probably over ten laws but didn't get a ticket. We just couldn't stop laughing that a D.A.R.E. cop pulled us over!

[Correction]

The cops are being dicks, but that's not against the law. All they're doing is creating a slowdown and they do that all the time, with or without the pedestrian charade.

Don't know about riding a motorcycle on a sidewalk. That's probably at least a little bit against the law :D

[Aerin]

lol @ the guy thinking he can get away from the ticket/being pulled over because the cop car was unmarked. There's reasons why they are unmarked.

In regards to the OP though, that's kinda shady.

[SephYuyX]

A person walking up to an undercover cop and soliciting sex acts is not entrapment.
A person being instructed by an undercover cop to stand on a street corner and offer sex acts is.

Always did wonder on how they defined it. Alot of that sting shit seems unfair, but this clears it up.

[Tyche]

Manswers:

When you need to pick up a prostitute, don't ask for a sexual ask, ask them if they'd like to go to your place to do a "nude modeling shoot". Not against the law, and if it's an undercover cop, it's doubtful that they'd accept that offer.

[Remyo]

it's a legal operation.

[Fhqwghads]

I'm confused, if the cop is crossing the street and people aren't stopping for him, uh... isn't there an ambulance involved in there somewhere?

And as for unmarked police vehicles, I think the concept is complete bullshit. Officers are there to protect and to serve. They can do neither if nobody knows the goddamn car driving down the street is an unmarked cop car when an officer's assistance is urgently needed. I would vehemently vote against any laws that pertained to enabling officers to drive around in unmarked vehicles if the government ever allowed any to be voted on, which they don't.

[SephYuyX]

A person walking up to an undercover cop and soliciting sex acts is not entrapment.
A person being instructed by an undercover cop to stand on a street corner and offer sex acts is.

Always did wonder on how they defined it. Alot of that sting shit seems unfair, but this clears it up.

But wait now.. Isnt the whole To Catch a Predator thing the same as the second definition? Your having an undercover person (not always necessarily a cop) lie to someone and bait them to come to their house.

[Obiron]

I'm confused, if the cop is crossing the street and people aren't stopping for him, uh... isn't there an ambulance involved in there somewhere?

Well, he's smart enough to stand back as the car goes through lol (and I work at a hospital, so I guess he's close to the ER if something went wrong). They were just pulling people over for driving through a crosswalk while a pedestrian is in it. Which also got us discussing what the exact rule is of when it's ok to proceed. When the pedestrian is on the opposite side of the road, or just when he's out of the lane you're in?

[skurlover]

A person walking up to an undercover cop and soliciting sex acts is not entrapment.
A person being instructed by an undercover cop to stand on a street corner and offer sex acts is.

Always did wonder on how they defined it. Alot of that sting shit seems unfair, but this clears it up.

But wait now.. Isnt the whole To Catch a Predator thing the same as the second definition? Your having an undercover person (not always necessarily a cop) lie to someone and bait them to come to their house.

They never "suggest" that the pedophile should come over and commit a crime. They simply act like a lost 14 year old girl that wants to lose her virginity. We all know its a crime, but the cops aren't defining the law to the pedo and then asking them to break it.

[Woozie]

I'm confused, if the cop is crossing the street and people aren't stopping for him, uh... isn't there an ambulance involved in there somewhere?

Well, he's smart enough to stand back as the car goes through lol (and I work at a hospital, so I guess he's close to the ER if something went wrong). They were just pulling people over for driving through a crosswalk while a pedestrian is in it. Which also got us discussing what the exact rule is of when it's ok to proceed. When the pedestrian is on the opposite side of the road, or just when he's out of the lane you're in?

I never even knew it was against the law to drive through a crosswalk while a pedestrian is in it x.x

I just use common sense. If I'm going to hit the pedestrian, I slow down or stop, if not, I keep going.

[Khamsin]

I know BG likes discussing legal situations, so here's one for you:

I'm sitting at work right now watching out my window at a little sting operation. One cop is wearing civilian clothing and crossing the street over and over at the crosswalk while 3 other cops watch and chase down anyone that doesn't stop for him. Is this entrapment? They're totally creating a distraction by having this gathering of cops, then ticketing the people that don't notice the guy crossing the street.

Oh, and now one of the motorcycle cops is driving on the sidewalk... I'm sure that's perfectly legal...

Is it a signalized intersection with a pedestrian signal? If so, then they'd just be catching the ones that run red lights, too, unless it's somebody turning right (on red or green) who wasn't looking. If it's just stop signs, then they should still notice the pedestrian if they notice the stop sign (and actually stop). If they're catching guys turning into a side street where a pedestrian is crossing, I could definitely see that.

IMO, the best way to catch somebody not seeing a pedestrian would be to find a high volume road with a low volume cross street. Preferrably a T-intersection with either stop signs, or a permissive left signal. Have two undercover cops, one on either side of the street. Have the undercover cop wait for a car to approach, wanting to turn left or right. Then have the undercover cop from the side the car wants to turn to cross the street while the driver is looking the other way. Since when you're waiting to turn right, you're looking left for an opening, and vice versa for turning left.

[Obiron]

I know BG likes discussing legal situations, so here's one for you:

I'm sitting at work right now watching out my window at a little sting operation. One cop is wearing civilian clothing and crossing the street over and over at the crosswalk while 3 other cops watch and chase down anyone that doesn't stop for him. Is this entrapment? They're totally creating a distraction by having this gathering of cops, then ticketing the people that don't notice the guy crossing the street.

Oh, and now one of the motorcycle cops is driving on the sidewalk... I'm sure that's perfectly legal...

Is it a signalized intersection with a pedestrian signal? If so, then they'd just be catching the ones that run red lights, too, unless it's somebody turning right (on red or green) who wasn't looking. If it's just stop signs, then they should still notice the pedestrian if they notice the stop sign (and actually stop). If they're catching guys turning into a side street where a pedestrian is crossing, I could definitely see that.

IMO, the best way to catch somebody not seeing a pedestrian would be to find a high volume road with a low volume cross street. Preferrably a T-intersection with either stop signs, or a permissive left signal. Have two undercover cops, one on either side of the street. Have the undercover cop wait for a car to approach, wanting to turn left or right. Then have the undercover cop from the side the car wants to turn to cross the street while the driver is looking the other way. Since when you're waiting to turn right, you're looking left for an opening, and vice versa for turning left.

It's a two-way stop intersection. The east-west traffic has no stop sign (or lights), so he's just forcing them to yield to the pedestrian when he steps into the crosswalk. Aside from the pedestrian thing, they would have no other reason to stop at the intersection. We did see one person get pulled over for turning into the crosswalk like you mentioned, but the majority of it was the traffic that had no stop sign. He would just look both ways until he saw cars getting close, and then start walking.

[Acturus]

A person walking up to an undercover cop and soliciting sex acts is not entrapment.
A person being instructed by an undercover cop to stand on a street corner and offer sex acts is.

Always did wonder on how they defined it. Alot of that sting shit seems unfair, but this clears it up.

But wait now.. Isnt the whole To Catch a Predator thing the same as the second definition? Your having an undercover person (not always necessarily a cop) lie to someone and bait them to come to their house.

They never "suggest" that the pedophile should come over and commit a crime. They simply act like a lost 14 year old girl that wants to lose her virginity. We all know its a crime, but the cops aren't defining the law to the pedo and then asking them to break it.

Exactly.

"Entrapment" is the act of an officer of the law suggesting that you break a law, and then arresting you when you do it.

It's also the difference between trying to buy heroin off an undercover cop, and agreeing to sell heroin for an undercover cop who supplies you and encourages you to do so, then arrests you for it.

The whole To Catch A Predator thing is scripted in such a way that the offender makes assumptions about certain things, and then offers an activity of his own volition.

[octopus]

I never even knew it was against the law to drive through a crosswalk while a pedestrian is in it x.x

I just use common sense. If I'm going to hit the pedestrian, I slow down or stop, if not, I keep going.

Same for me. If you're in a big city and you have to wait until the crosswalk is completely clear, you'll never be able to drive through...

[Alleya]

The law in most states is that pedestrians at designated crosswalks always have the right of way.

But only a cop needing to meet his quota is going to pull you over for going through if you pose no reasonable threat of harm to the pedestrian.

[aurik]

Laws vary from state to state. Here in California you may not drive across the crosswalk while a pedestrian is using it, even if your path is unobstructed.

Its just an asshole thing to ticket people who use common sense and make a right turn when the pedestrian is all the way on the left