Advice for a new salvage LS

[ubermonkey]

Hey all.
Y'all have given me good advice in the past, so I figure this is as good a time as any to solicit more.

After it became apparent I wasn't going to be able to run salvage with any existing LS or group within my timezone, I took the initiative and started one of my own.

Now, I have some salvage experience, and I know my jobs, and generally I can manage people well (or shout a lot, both work).

This doesn't mean I can neccessarily run a linkshell though, so I solicit the advice of people who have done it, what mistakes did you make that I can avoid, and what advice can you offer in general?

[Lyramion]

Make sure your BRD gets a storm fife before everyone of your group goes into salvage addiction mode!


Basically after reading thru wiki and knowing the dry details only time can improve your salvage group. Make your own errors and learn from them without going all emo for the current run. Make a "priority" list for cells. Make everyone understand why a certain job needs it and in which order. With some practise there will be no more need to call most cells. Constant repetition leads to victory anyway here.


We recently restarted some Arrapago and half of the people were new to the area. Had about 3 runs with misstakes leading to not so nice stuff. Now everyone knows their stuff and we are back to almost 100% 6 floor pop.

[rithridan]

Just keep in mind the first couple of runs will be rough and hope that the people you invited are more then mindless drones who can only do whatever you tell them to do. Also AFKing during salvage is a no-no, if someone has to AFK then either kick him from the party till hes back or make sure he knows to disband himself before leaving. A lot of general information can be found either in here or on the wikis (this is one of the areas where bgwiki has a lot of info). After that its just a matter of learning from your own mistakes and seeing what works for you. Our group is a bit over 50 runs old (4 months) and we are still refining strategies based on our experiences.

[Lilswitche]

The first few runs you do, I think it would prolly be best to bring 6-7 people max. Just so that everyone can get the feel of each other, things can go more smoothly. I find if you bring alot of people who don't know jack shit about salvage, it breeds pluralistic ignorance, where people stand around doing nothing. It's not necessary, but to avoid any possible headaches, get people that either have some experience, or that are willing to learn and read up on how to do it. Fifteen or twenty runs down the road, you don't want to have to hold people's hands.

[Byrd]

Whatever system you use for drops, establish it ahead of time, and make it clear. Don't make shit up as you go along. Proaction > Reaction.

[Gaea]

Be patient and make sure you have members that are patient. A new salvage linkshell needs to develop a chemistry. Unlike endgame shells that also schedule salvage runs, a group that formed just for salvage won't have this luxury at first. Start off with small goals like an NM. Then two NMs. When doing a chariot for the first time, don't schedule any NMs that arent' directly in your way (unless you need them to pop the teleporter). Give yourself as much time as possible to farm cells and be as prepared as you can be for the chariot. When you are familiar with an area and its cell drops, then start doing NM and boss combinations. When you can do 2 NMs and the mega boss you are right on target and a third or 4th NM in any run is just a bonus and shows how far you've guys come.

Oh, and don't be afraid to quartermaster cells until people understand what your priorities are. I did this for a few runs and it really helped a lot. Your goal is to get to the point where you establish an order for cells before the run and people pay attention to when it is their turn. Arrapago Remnants is probably the most difficult for accumulating cells, though it has the easiest boss. Zhayolm Remnants is probably the second most difficult and it's boss is probably the second easiest (Especially with Earthen Ward or Accession and Stoneskin). Bhaflau and Silver Sea are pretty easy to get cells but their bosses are a bit nuts, particularly Bhaflau.

I think the only thing I have to stress is patience. We're in our third week and if all goes well we'll have completed our first body piece this week. Our group is getting faster with each run, and within the next couple of weeks I hope that we'll have an almost mechanical chemistry about how to handle virtually everything in Salvage. We've had two awful runs where we've gotten nothing and a couple runs where we got only a simple level 15 piece. BUT, we learned alot, got back on the horse, and we're doing quite well.

[Uzor]

As people have already said, everyone in your group needs patience. A newly-established shell will, most of the time, not work very well. People will make mistakes, and not know what to do. If the group itself don't do much things together outside of Salvage, they'll also be in the process of getting to know each other, and likely won't work well together as a group. A lot of people can be discouraged when the LS first starts out, because the shell can, seemingly, be unsuccessful. That is, not getting any 35 drops, wiping to a boss, etc. This can discourage people and make them leave the shell. That is why people will need patience. Once you get your first and second 35 drop, people will get encouraged and excited and work better together.

Set small goals at first, such as popping and killing Hammerblow or Powderkeg one run, not both. If you have time left after this, then feel free to move on to another NM. People first need to get familiar with the zone itself and the NM's. Once they are, you can start aiming for several NM's every run. Having too high expectations on the shell at first, will not only disappoint yourself, but it will make the rest of the shell disappointed for not meeting up to the expectations.

Granted, when my shell started, Salvage was still a new thing, and people didn't even know that the Qiqirns dropped Ares and Morrigan bodies. So it should be faster for you to get 35 drops then it was for my shell (roughly 3 months before we got the first drop, going 5 times a week). Nowadays most shells that start out get their first 35 drop within 3 weeks it seem.

[Gaea]

Yeah we are on week 3 and haven't gotten any 35s yet. We have several 35 droppers planned this week, so hopefully we'll score one. I'm personally hoping for LV35 Usukane Body this week and we'll have completed our first body piece. I think week 3 going 3-4 times a week is when things seem to generally turn around. My friend's shell stumbled a bit their first two weeks as well, and that seems to be the general report from everyone. The first 5-8 runs expect to trip over your own two feet, ALOT. Try not to bother with a chariot until after run 5, and try to get some practice on a couple of Archaic Chariots to familiarize yourself with their moves. The mega bosses have all their moves plus 1 bonus move depending on the boss. Do all the research you can on each chariot and watch youtube videos

[SamanosukeShiva]

dont get your hopes up when fighting 35s NM

My salvage group is kind of new also, 1st couple of runs we do mostly arrapago NMs since it's the easiest run to do IMO, after that we moved on to chariots.

We did LBC 1st because it's the hardest chariots of all IMO(if 9/10 gears or less), even without homing missile it still hit very hard and do double attacks. If you can beat LBC, the rest of chariots r piece of cake.

[Amele]

expect to lose members (alot) in the first couple months. people tend to very heavily underestimate the time investment that salvage takes; from not doing enough assaults to not realizing you're looking at 3+ months to get that piece you actually want and not just some random trashlot.

expect members with multiple jobs to whine when you make them come on their best one or two repeatedly. expect to need to bring people on their best jobs repeatedly.

be a jerk about passing and about time keeping. don't have one person do everything (at first) - for most of our early runs, one person was calling cells, one was directing traffic. write down how long it takes you to make pops and kills from when you enter the floor - this will help you learn where you're really losing time and aid in estimating routes once you get better.

it's ok to experiment with who gets which cells first - learn what works for your group and get in a groove with it (some groups spread equipment out across various mages and melee, others will try to unlock one particular person as fast as possible: usually the tank)


decide on the lot system -with input from everyone involved- before the first run. don't assume that the six to ten you have right now is the six to ten you'll always have. (see point 1)

be a jerk about bringing enough meds. every mage should have at least a few hi-ethers on them just in case, the main healer(s) will need at least 3 until you get good. everyone should bring echos, food, reraise, hi-pots, etc. (you need fewer hipots now than you used to need for salvage but they still help a ton before that second magic cell has dropped.)

[aurik]

Recruit a bard or multiple people with bard leveled (as well as other useful jobs).

[Transient_Dreamer]

exactly what Amele just said, the key phrase is "be a jerk"

there is only 100 minutes in salvage, if you aren't a jerk, then cells don't get passed, reraise is never brought in, and people come on whatever hell job they want.

I reiterate, be a jerk

as for job setup, I have found that based on experience, you need at least one pimped out DoT job, like WAR, MNK or NIN, and a brd and rdm to make the group as efficient as possible, especially, if you are thinking of taking in a small group.

[Amele]

exactly what Amele just said, the key phrase is "be a jerk"

there is only 100 minutes in salvage, if you aren't a jerk, then cells don't get passed, reraise is never brought in, and people come on whatever hell job they want.

I reiterate, be a jerk

as for job setup, I have found that based on experience, you need at least one pimped out DoT job, like WAR, MNK or NIN, and a brd and rdm to make the group as efficient as possible, especially, if you are thinking of taking in a small group.

speaking of redmages, make sure they at least unlock phalanx II - yeah yeah, it's so niche alot of redmages don't touch it. salvage *is* that niche (at least the first floor or two of most zones.)

[Uzor]

Meh, Phalanx II is overrated in Salvage imo. Its useful, sure, but I wouldn't say the RDM needs to remove his current merits to merit it.

[Amele]

Meh, Phalanx II is overrated in Salvage imo. Its useful, sure, but I wouldn't say the RDM needs to remove his current merits to merit it.

/is a jerk. having redmages both with and without it, it can be a big time saver on early floors. - you can pull more stuff counterstance tank more stuff and generally just fight more things quicker.

[Bakthi]

I don't think I'd start out hunting Silver Sea 35s, because it will probably be even longer before you see one of those drop than other zones. Frogs kind of suck to fight, but have a good drop rate. Reactionary Ramparts suck in multiple ways. Arrapago isn't a bad place to start; you can just hit all the NMs in a row until you run out of time, then try to build on that.

And yes, you will have to nag people incessantly to pass cells, keep moving, etc. Sometimes, you will get the reverse problem of people who like to pass cells too quickly, so as I call the cells, I never pass one until the proper person has lotted it. I've seen a few important cells get flushed...

[Ryushii]

The biggest thing is finding members who will stay consistently that you can trust. My biggest problem when attempting to create a shell was keeping more than a few members consistent. The more solid the group, the better the morale and everything. Also, don't be the nice guy and let bad players in your ls. Though that may be a problem only I have...

[OctavoGilgamesh]

I've basically had to purge almost my entire starting roster with more dedicated/skilled people from when I first started, so unfortunately my group has gone through 2 learning curves and just now is coming into it's own about 20 runs in. My advice learning from my struggles getting a group going is to recruit people you think will do well and have the right jobs, not just shout on the ls or tell friends to find other friends to come along. You get whiny bitches who afk, don't pass/lot, complain about lack of drops, complain about coming brd over drg, etc if you aren't selective with who you bring.

[ubermonkey]

First run was tonight. Other than a couple of glaring mistakes made by yours truly, it went okay.

Loads of room for improvement, but we didn't suck mightilly like I expected.

[Therin]

My suggestions:

Make a priority of cells before you enter, and DON'T BRING PEOPLE WHO DON'T LISTEN.

Give weapons to two-handed DDs first, then weaker DDs, then MNKs. Make mages LAST. Follow the same order for abilities and subjobs (though in some areas, /WHM is needed, like in Arrapago).

Give your first magic to a RDM who has Phalanx II merited. Hi2u 0-10 damage from first floor mobs!

PULL FAST. Get a puller with balls who will have mobs at camp before the previous mob is dead, or within 2-3 seconds. Streamlining pulls can shave many minutes off of your time.

Farm boss 25's first. A lot of the boss runs are very forgiving on time. When you start out, designate your runs specifically for the boss. If you're a skilled group doing Silver Sea or Bhaflau and go directly for the boss, you should arrive with at least 30-40 minutes left (meaning not doing anything else on the way up). A lot of groups farm other NMs on the way up - but since you're just starting, you should save as much time as possible for the boss. This will get your group acclimated to operating together and rushing from area to area within the salvage. You WILL wipe to the first couple of boss runs (probably), but once you've learned how to take them down you'll be much better off. Once you've done LBC and LAC a couple of times and gotten comfortable with doing a few NMs on the way up, then I'd recommend switching to the more difficult bosses.

Get everyone the 25's that they prioritize and then go farming for 35's based on your list. This is the most effective way to farm salvage.

Other than that, it's as others have previously said - your runs will get better as you go on, and once people learn how to cooperate you'll find a lot of extra time in your runs.

Also - go as often as possible - one run per week will NOT do it. You'll never get anything done. I would recommend two or three boss runs per week until you're satisfied with boss runs, and then you can start going 4-5 times a week, or even every day, once you're comfortable with 35 farming and smaller numbers.