Turkey taking a page from the USA

[Kuya]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23366588/

updated 9:16 a.m. ET, Wed., Feb. 27, 2008
CUKURCA, Turkey - Turkish troops have killed 77 Kurdish rebels in night-long clashes in northern Iraq, the military said Wednesday. Five soldiers were also killed.

Meanwhile, more than 40 military trucks ferried troops toward the Iraqi border Wednesday, a day after heavy snow slowed down Turkey's ground incursion against Kurdish rebels.

F-16 warplanes and helicopters were seen flying over the border town of Cukurca toward Iraq.

The death toll for the rebels reached to 230, the military said. The death toll for soldiers stood at 24. The military said three pro-government village guards were also killed during the operation that began last week.

Iraq has demanded an immediate end to the operation. Turkey, however, says it will continue the incursion until it achieves its military goals.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, before his arrival in Turkey later Wednesday, said in India that he will tell Turkish leaders they need to wrap up their military operations in northern Iraq quickly, and that the ongoing assault must not last longer than a week or two.

I just love the Iraq and the US reaction: "OMG YOU GUYS, STOP IT "



Perfect, Iraq is supossed to be sovereign, yet another country is able to just waltz into its borders in order to attack its enemies. Though i think this may have happend before under Sadam, regardless, for a nation that is suposed to be under US protection, the lack of indignation is ridiculous. And i find it incredibly ironic that amidst the wake of Kosovo, the terrorists that Turkey is attacking are suposedly for the autonomy of a southern region in Turkey, even if this terrorist organization may be violent, the very reality of this is hilarious to me.

[Khamsin]

We didn't say to stop it, we just said to hurry the fuck up and get it over with.

Somehow, I don't think the US minds too much as long as they make it a quick, decisive victory. No stringing them along. Time is money. Go get your Kurds and get out. Chop chop.

[Brill Weave]

But the problem is that the PKK is without a doubt a group that is not against using attacks against civilians to meet their goals. I'm personally shocked that it took Turkey this long to start their offensive. It's difficult for the U.S. to really jump on Turkey considering that they are one of our allies.

The whole fact that they literally just waltzed in is a bit disconcerting but let's face it. Iraq and the U.S. knew that Turkey would be pulling some sustained operations in the north. If they were really that concerned about stopping them they would have placed military assets up there as a deterrant.

My guess is that both the U.S. and Iraq are not against the incursion, but they have to make a fuss to make it appear that they are. The Turks will be gone in a week or two, if not don't be surprised to see some rhetoric from Gates saying that we will be moving forces north to deter the Turks from continuing their campaign.

I loved the "OMG YOU GUYS! STOP IT!" though

[Charla]

Yeah, the way I heard it, we more or less approved and just don't want them making a scene and leaving us to deal with the fallout.

[Mizango]

I loved the "OMG YOU GUYS! STOP IT!" though

Yeah that did strike me as odd also.

[Kuya]

My guess is that both the U.S. and Iraq are not against the incursion, but they have to make a fuss to make it appear that they are. The Turks will be gone in a week or two, if not don't be surprised to see some rhetoric from Gates saying that we will be moving forces north to deter the Turks from continuing their campaign.

In hindsight, i shouldn't have been surprised. It's not like these things don't happend often. And in the end, most people don't seem to give a shit that what a nation did is absolutely ridiculous and reason for much fury within the community. But once again, c'est la vie.

I guess i thought that, if i were a iraqui i would be absolutely fucking pissed that a nation just ran passed the border of my country just to get at some terrorists without, apperently, any concensus on the part of the nation. I have a hard time believing that Iraq agreed to this beforehand, but if they did then i admit ignorance. I also wonder why Turkey did not just ask Iraq or the US to do the job for them, and i presume they didn't want to make this very public because then the terrorist themselves would have found out and moved?

[Brill Weave]

Well the problem with the Turks going into the north is that from a U.S. viewpoint, the north is relatively peaceful. There are nowhere near as many attacks on Iraqi & U.S. forces in comparison to southern Iraq.

The reason being that the PKK forces operate primarily out of the north and as you can tell, their targets are the Turks. So if the U.S. & Iraqi forces came up north to kick up a shitstorm, the PKK would then turn some of their attention to the coalition forces and not just the Turks.

This way the Turks get what they want and our boys are able to filter out another terrorist type cell without having to lift a finger. If the Turks don't completely wipe out the PKK, they will at the very least destroy their ability to perform anything other than small guerilla attacks.

All in all, it's not a bad thing. But I agree, if I were an Iraqi I would be pretty fucking pissed right now.

[Blitzrahl]

For better or worse, state sovereignty isn't what it used to be.

[Tajin]

if i were a iraqui i would be absolutely fucking pissed that a nation just ran passed the border of my country just to get at some terrorists without, apperently, any concensus on the part of the nation.

I have no idea how is the situation right now in Iraq (not that I ever had, since you know news are not exactly reliable). But if I were iraqui the least of my problems would be yet another army going in the far north to kill someone else.

I get your point, but really Iraq has his own shit to deal with

[Fallso]

Chances are though they're probably killing Kurds, not PKK members. Turkish people have a wonderful way of fucking up stuff that would otherwise be simple of they took their time <_< .

[Cail]

Yeah, the way I heard it, we more or less approved and just don't want them making a scene and leaving us to deal with the fallout.

yea i heard we supplied them with intel and everything lol...