Rethink Afghanistan

[Kuya]

As some of you might have heard, there may probably be a troop increase in the near future, while the US is going through a recession and a defitcit problem. So i think it's a good idea to look at the reasons why we are told that we need to be fighting in Afghanistan the way we are now, and if it is legitimate. Public opinion is turning against the war, and as can be seen here:

http://i33.tinypic.com/2s1oz09.png

It is becoming quite the problem. So that's why i'm suggesting looking at this documentary that looks at the reasons for the war and whether they're true or not. The documentary's purpose is to argue that conventional warfare will not work in Afghanistan and that it is counterproductive. It's called Rethink Afghanistan, and it features such people as Andrew Bacevich, Stephen Kinzer, and Rory Stewart.

Some videos may be graphic. The site is here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPUwQGmMSm0



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3I6SxMpivo



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4teO_XDtkLk



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krHV9iT20zw



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7jAT0FAGBc



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjE2wMWMJwI

[Stee]

Are you even a American citizen?

[antihero]

we're still in afghanistan?

[Demosthenes11]

obama wants more troops so it's stupid to think we don't need them
he is our president after all and he knows best and has the best interests in mind

[SephYuyX]

First 3 comments pretty much sums up the lul. Lock thread.

[Kuya]

I also disagree with the documentary in terms of Pakistan becoming destabilized to such an extent by terrorists that nukes fall into the hands of terrorists. There really isn't much to support that, considering that Pakistan provides resources to the Taliban and the Taliban is not particularly interested in taking over Pakistan. They might be referring to the military regime becoming radicalized, but that would only enbolden them to use the nuke on India, which isn't something they weren't predisposed to do.

That brings me to another point. The Taliban, as the videos argue, is primarily focused on establishing fundemantalist rule in Afghnistan rather than going after the US, particularly because the set of beliefs they suscribe to are a more jihadist belief (which centers around fighting institutions rather than punishing the people, or civilians), as opposed to Al Qaida and other relatively more extremist groups which are more aligned with al-takfir (where punishing civilians for following an infidel government is acceptable).

It should also be taken into consideration that the US is involved in a web of politics, ethnic conflict, religious conflict, and resource war, where Pakistan is primarily intent on securing itself against India, by using organizations such as the Taliban to secure itself. This is similar to why Saudia Arabia funds fundamentalist groups. It, like Pakistan seeks to use these groups in favour of their foreign interests (much like the US helped fund the Mujahadeen against the Soviets). In the case of the Saudis, guarding against Iran is their primary intent, while for Pakistan, the issue is mostly India.

[antihero]

lol

[Kuya]

Hmm, maybe i should have posted a dead celebrity thread first.

[Rhinox]

Afghanistan will be Obama's quagmire. He has no backbone to stand up against the Military establishment to end it. He so fucking concerned about his legacy of being the first black president that he doesn't want to upset any of his opponents. he is the quintessential politician all the speeches he gave to his supporters during the campaign meant dick.

Sure he gives us progressives nuggets here and there but they're just that nuggets of actual change sprinkled in among the trash heap that are the policies he is continuing from the previous administration.

that being said I still rather have him as president then some redneck C-street hick who believes jesus talks to him.

[Kuya]

They are very well done videos, and i hope you do see them. I did not like the (in my opinion) excessive images of carnage. They are for influencing the viewer even if they are necessary facts to make the viewer see that people aren't just numbers.

[Shiroikage]

Kuya, I am an American and I am conservative and I believe that Afghanistan is wrong and the war in Afghanistan is wrong.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

The problem with leaving now is that if we leave now we risk Afghanistan being what it was before 9/11. And predicting that it will be Obama's Vietnam is pretty ballsy considering what just happened in Iraq.

[Shiroikage]

The Socialist Brain of a Liberal Democrat

[Kuya]

The problem with leaving now is that if we leave now we risk Afghanistan being what it was before 9/11. And predicting that it will be Obama's Vietnam is pretty ballsy considering what just happened in Iraq.

I don't think that when one speaks of leaving Afghanistan, one refers to a withdrawal of even non military personel. What i mean is, the Taliban (a term used to refer to a multitude of groups- the term means student) is mostly interested in nationalistic issues, rather than going off to attack the US, and Al Qaida is practically gone. The problem with Afghanistan is keeping it from becoming a safe haven, as they say, for terrorists. However, safe havens for terrorists exists everywhere, and the best safe havens for terrorists, as argued by Waleed Saleh Alkhalifa, are western nations (Western Europe and the US) BECAUSE of their democratic beliefs (innocense is presumed, spying is forbidden). These same terrorists groups prefer to work in places like Europe because in some of their countries they would be tortured and killed with no remorse, particularly because these countries tend to be ruled by dictators and tyrants.

In terms of Afghnistan, what can keep organizations like
Al Qaida out is making the Taliban cooperate (like Sudan when they expelled Osama). Let's not forget that Afghanistan was primarily attacked not to get Al Qaida, but because the Taliban refused to hand over Osama.

[Rhinox]

The problem with leaving now is that if we leave now we risk Afghanistan being what it was before 9/11. And predicting that it will be Obama's Vietnam is pretty ballsy considering what just happened in Iraq.

So what if it becomes what it was before 9/11. Why do we have to be the World's Police?

[Korietsu]

If you think that spying on citizens in the US doesn't happen, you're very very wrong. The CIA and NSA doesn't sit around and do nothing at their desks.

[Beckwin]

Is it worth considering that the Taliban was a pretty brutal government? I realize that Taliban is somewhat of an umbrella term, but the previous government treated women really really poorly and was a hardline theocracy.

And yeah, the fact that this is nearing the decade marker is kinda mindblowing.

[Demosthenes11]

Is it worth considering that the Taliban was a pretty brutal government? I realize that Taliban is somewhat of an umbrella term, but the previous government treated women really really poorly and was a hardline theocracy.

And yeah, the fact that this is nearing the decade marker is kinda mindblowing.

that's not an afghanistan problem, that's an islam problem

[Kuya]

If you think that spying on citizens in the US doesn't happen, you're very very wrong. The CIA and NSA doesn't sit around and do nothing at their desks.

Spying without warrants in the US is considered illegal, as opposed to other countries where such a concept does not exist and you can be spied on at any moment without ever being notified or ever being able to sue for it.

Is it worth considering that the Taliban was a pretty brutal government? I realize that Taliban is somewhat of an umbrella term, but the previous government treated women really really poorly and was a hardline theocracy.

And yeah, the fact that this is nearing the decade marker is kinda mindblowing.

I don't know if you're referring to the previous government as the Taliban or if you are acknowledging that the previous government is basically the current government (which was/is also hardline). In any case, hopefully, you saw the videos as they explain that too. Look at the 5th video.

[Beckwin]

I'll try to watch the vids later tonight, and yeah I realize that the current gov't is pretty hardline as well.