Kuya

[Conrad]

Do you think a person's religion is a choice or something that you're born with?

[tyven]

its all up to jew young skirkle

[Kuya]

It's a choice for everyone except Jews.

[Kuya]

Unless your parents hit you with belts, in which case, it's not a choice.

[Kuya]

This is very contextual, skirkle.

[Conrad]

It's a choice for everyone except Jews.

It's funny you say that. I'll provide some context:

I've been getting into a few discussions with my mom and brother regarding my views on religion. I no longer identify as a Jew because I don't have any religious beliefs, including the existence of a god. On the other hand, they continue to tell me that I was "born Jewish" and will always remain a Jew despite what I say. My mom is disturbed over my views because she seems to think I would be more optimistic and a better person if I at least believed in God, even if I didn't practice Judaism.

Basically they're telling me being Jewish is like being gay; even if I say I'm not, they keep insisting it's not my choice to make.

[Conrad]

Considering I've twice been stopped on the street and asked if I was Jewish, one of those times in a busy square of New York City, I'm thinking there may be at least some merit to what they're saying, even if I choose not to admit it. Perhaps it's just that I display physical qualities that many Jews share, due to my geneology.

[bossman]

Basically they're telling me being Jewish is like being gay

They're right.

[Conrad]

shut up colenzo

[bossman]

dude i'm just trying to halp

[Norellicus]

Basically they're telling me being Jewish is like being gay; even if I say I'm not, they keep insisting it's not my choice to make.

Ironic

[Colenzo]

It's funny you say that. I'll provide some context:

I've been getting into a few discussions with my mom and brother regarding my views on religion. I no longer identify as a Jew because I don't have any religious beliefs, including the existence of a god. On the other hand, they continue to tell me that I was "born Jewish" and will always remain a Jew despite what I say. My mom is disturbed over my views because she seems to think I would be more optimistic and a better person if I at least believed in God, even if I didn't practice Judaism.

Basically they're telling me being Jewish is like being gay; even if I say I'm not, they keep insisting it's not my choice to make.

I actually have a "jewish" friend thats not really actually associated with the religion and when I call him jewish he gets all mad because of him "being born jewish."

[Cadsuane]

I think your family's right. Religions have cultures, rituals, that you can't drop and abandon along with your faith. They still refer to jews as an ethnic group, the so-called protestant work ethic, etc., all of that stuff piggy backs on religion but doesn't need to have anyhing to do with a belief in god. I met a guy once in Brazil who admitted to me he was an atheist but was a frequent church goer. I found that a bit confusing so I asked him about it, he said he didn't believe in god but he does believe in the importance of ritual.

[Colenzo]

sounds like a real retard

[Conrad]

I think your family's right. Religions have cultures, rituals, that you can't drop and abandon along with your faith. They still refer to jews as an ethnic group, the so-called protestant work ethic, etc., all of that stuff piggy backs on religion but doesn't need to have anyhing to do with a belief in god. I met a guy once in Brazil who admitted to me he was an atheist but was a frequent church goer. I found that a bit confusing so I asked him about it, he said he didn't believe in god but he does believe in the importance of ritual.

But that means I will never win a PlayStation 2.

[Alleya]

You're only a jew if you call yourself a jew. If you don't, then who's going to know? People can't shoehorn you with labels like that unless you give them some reason to.

Spoiler: show

Or you have a giant jew nose

[Conrad]

I don't give anything away with my appearance, or at least I thought I didn't until I was asked in the middle of Manhattan by a Hasidic. Hell, not even my surname is revealing. I guess there's something about me that seems Jewy or something.

In any case, it reminded me of the discussion Kuya & I had about a Jewish race vs. a Jewish religion, and I'm still of the belief that there is no race because there are American Jews, European Jews, Israeli Jews, and so on that all have different backgrounds and ethnicities. It bothers me that even among my own family, the "one of us" mindset is prevalent and my concerns and criticisms with religion fall on deaf ears.

[Alleya]

That mentality is true of just about every group on the planet except middle class white people, and even then they're bursting with AMIRUKAN PRID

[Conrad]

True enough.

[Kuya]

Yea, we did have this discussion. There is a difference between Judaism and the Jewish ethnicity, and the fact that they seem like the same thing is just a product of history. Yes, there are some qualities that are associated to Jews, and my understanding of this is because Jews tend to marry other Jews, or at least they are encouraged to, this would explain why there is a tendency of those who have the Jewish faith, to also mantain similar characteristics, in fact, there is a genetic disease that tends to appear in Jewish bloodlines, i think it is called Tay Sach's disease. It seems that, when compared to other religions, Jews tend to marry other Jews more, and the Jewish religion tends to be more strict about who it lets in, possibly creating the conditions where physical qualities tend to congregrate on those who call themselves Jews.

But yes, it is similar to gays in so far as they are both identities that tend to be treated as complete independent physical entities.

It is an interesting situation. Just because you have the qualities of a Jew does not make you a Jew, and you don't even believe in the Jewish faith. A similar situation would be calling an effeminate man gay when he is neither attracted to other men nor does he identify himself as gay. I will note however, like Cads says, it is hard to break away from the culture one is born with, so it gets harder to deny you are a Jew if you were born in Jewish culture and if you have physical qualities associated to Jews. In my case, i may have physical qualities similar to what is called a black man in the US, but i do not share culture ideaology, making it much easier for me to complete alianate from them. Yet that doesn't stop some from calling me black, because apparently, anything below olive skin is inmediately black.