BG, what's your take on Turn Based Combat?

[Tomino]

Hi everyone,
I recently got the chance to be part of an rpg game development. Nothing AAA mind you, but it's still something I'd like to put all possible efforts to.

I've been following these forums since long and I know how many users here are long lovers of the RPG genre, both eastern or western. I believe many of you could be of great help with the seasoned experience they do have thanks to all the different games they had been playing and loving.
So here's one question I'd really love to hear your opinions about:


So what do you think about Turn Based Combat in RPGs, like old school FF games?
Is it a thing of the past, something that RPGs are slowly leaving behind, or a solid stone for any well made RPG?


Thanks in advance to those who will stop by and write down their replies, they will be much appreciated!

[Darus Grey]

It's a style choice. Nothing else.

Real-time is not any better or deeper, neither is turn-based. You decide which one you want, and then refine it from there.

Thinking otherwise will just lead you down the road of every fail developer before you who thought the same. I'm referring to every developer of turn-based games who made excellent titles and then went on to make absolutely asstastic "real time" systems for the sequels because they thought they "had to".

[Elcura]

Turn based can be good, but for it to be enjoyable there needs to something else with it. Like how Shadow Hearts or Lost Odyssey had their ring based systems, that alone made the combat more interesting. There were many tense battles where I had to hit the ring perfectly otherwise things would get fucked up. Or battles that could only be completed in 1 turn if I hit everything right. Something small like that, just a little bit more interactivity than selecting commands and waiting for the result helps.

Real time is more fun, but everything about it seems harder to make. And if the real time system isn't fun or good, then it's just a waste. A good real time system will at least keep people playing your game should the story or characters suck (hello SO4).

Generally, stuff like random battles and turn based systems are outdated, but that doesn't mean they can't be used anymore. They just need more polish and refinement to make them stand out with today's crowd. If you're set on one way, stick to it and make it work.

[stewie]

I liked The Legend of Dragoon's turn based style, and generally prefer turn based to real time.

[Elcura]

Yeah, or like Xenogears. Shit like that is insanely fun.

[Darus Grey]

Just to expand a bit, as I said, neither system is inheritently better. The real difference is they appeal to different types of people, and the reality of that is turn-based gaming is the smaller group, and is thus more a niche market. Which is the real driving force behind this nonsense. Real-Time is not an evolution(because hardware was never a limit to real-time systems, we have real-time RPGs from the early 80s) of turn-based, that is the fatal flaw most people seem to accept.

It's like saying LARPing is the natural and superior evolution to tabletop D&D... say that a few times and you'll have an epiphany.

[BRP]

It is more than a style choice. RTS are more reflex based, while TBS (ideally) are entirely strategic.

Turn-based "RPGs" tend to be uninteresting because most of them are shallow turn-based strategy games. Few units/options and lots of grinding. In action-based games the fun part is to get around the grinding by being good at the reflex challenges.

EDIT: So... make a "SRPG" if you want turn-based. (Or improve on the Last Remnant formula. Or whatever odd-ball evolutions you know about lying around)

[Hyan]

So what do you think about Turn Based Combat in RPGs, like old school FF games?

It was boring back then, it is boring now.

FFT is the only type of turn based I can tolerate. Oh, Last Remnant was awesome too.

But I think I'd still prefer something real-time, like.. Kingdom Hearts. Dissidia?

[Atreides]

it definitely feels like turn-based RPGs should be limited to handhelds and shorter downloadable titles, since most people can't stomach a full-fledged 99+ hour experience that's strictly turn based on their home consoles anymore. I definitely think that in the future, aside from a handful of titles that appeal to older gamers' sense of nostalgia, the majority of what people play on the big screen will be either action RPGs, or other genres with added RPG elements (leveling, upgrading, stat/inventory management).

[Priran]

I have no problems with turn-based. As far as it being a "niche market", you could say that about any genre that isn't FPS.

[Nevex]

Used to love turn-based battle systems, now I grew tired of them. I find myself appreciating games like FFXIII, TWEWY and KH more while losing interest in oldschool FFs, BoF, Pokemon and such.
Perhaps it's just because they're too slow paced for my taste, made worse by the fact that I don't have all the time to play I used to have. I haven't played a single turn-based RPG that doesn't feel "slow" in years.

FFT is an exception because it's not just a mash X fest like any FF from 1 to 10. However once you get broken stuff like Orlandu and CT4Holy it gets pretty dull as well, though that's not a battle system-related issue. It's still slow as hell though.

[sephir]

I find it hard to stomach a good deal of turn based games anymore, despite the fact that the game may be absolutely amazing (FF9). At the same time however, games with battle systems such as the Tales series & FF12 seem to blend much of a turn based system with that of a real time combat system quite flawlessly.


I dont think turn based combat is a thing of the past, but instead rather something that has to have its own unique element in order for a game to truly succeed.

[Cheerios]

Tactics takes as much time to finish a battle as it does to finish a board in Mario Party.

[SamanosukeShiva]

I prefer turn base myself, probably nostalgia speaking but those old school games like xenogears were fun as hell

[Kiarax]

I didn't read half this thread, but if you are going to do something with a turn based battle system at least make some effort to make it interesting in some form. If you have no decent form of character development or battle "gimmicks" you're left with a very very boring game. I'll take a real time battle system over a turn based any day, but I can still go back and love the hell out of something like FF7 thanks to the materia system or Grandia 2 thanks to the fuck awesome battle system itself.

Actually, just rip off the Grandia battle system entirely and you're on to a winner. Even if you have a terrible story with uninteresting characters I'll still play the shit outta it.

[Qalbert]

Used to love turn-based battle systems, now I grew tired of them. I find myself appreciating games like FFXIII

[Kaisha]

"Oh it has a menu for queueing attacks, it must be turn-based!"


Gimmy some of Valkyrie Profile's battlemode setup and call it a day. That shit was the most fun I've ever had in any RPG and some of the faster paced battles I've had. The less waiting I do the happier I am. Basically, I like games that think outside the box for their battle setups. I'd not worry about the turn-based/realtime crap, just make something that is fun to play.

[Qalbert]

Pretty sure it was the fact that everyone had a gauge that had to fill so they could TAKE THEIR TURN as opposed to being able to move around and use attacks at will that made it turn-based.
herp derp

[Darus Grey]

Even ignoring that...an attack queue...showers the order of turns >.>, so yes, queued attacks means turn based.

[Tomino]

I myself was once quite fond of turn based systems, I also remember being unhappy when ATB and the like started appearing in the FF series and such. But after all these years I'd tent to look at them as things of the past much like invisible random encounters.

I do agree that, like some of you wrote, turn based can go pretty well along with a unique, or complex battle system. But then, in my opinion, you start to have like a Magic the Gathering game plus a storyline.

What I feel nice about "real time" battles is that they always make boss battles feel more epic, simply because you know that damn huge monster could be firing its attack anytime soon, just as you are clicking targets or skills. It's not that the boss can actually "spam" everything, but still you can't sit there and do the math as everything stands still.

I think FF XI made me enjoy "real time" even more, simply because it feels much more real. The game doesn't move at light speed, WoW style, but still forces you to take decisions in a given amount of time.

Also, I tend to consider (unless I'm doing it wrong) real time battles much more enjoyable when it comes to "grind". Once I am strong enough to farm a certain enemy, it's a waste to lose 30 sec whenever I have to re-do inputs again. Things like FF12 gambits (or dragon age tactics) are a great way to ease the standards monster mashing moments instead of a repetetive mindless "attack attack attack" like I had to in DQ9.