Thaumaturge tanking (good or bad?)

[Drako]

After 20, Thaumaturge can get Firm Conviction, each time you cast a non-buff/absorb spell (i still dont know if Sacrife works) you get -20% dmg until 80% for a few seconds. If you do cast a buff you lose all -dmg and has to rebuilt. Best spells are:

slow, poison, dia, bio, syphon mp

i also had damnation, sacrifice II, taunt and second wind (SW is very important since sometimes you lose the buff before a WS or a critical and can go down to so little HP that you cant cast sacrifice)

Other Cons and Thms can kill you by buffing you unexpectingly.

This enables Thaumaturge to tank kinda like RDM would do in ffxi, you just keep casting and hitting the mob, having shield up is optional, since you gonna take 30-70 dmg most of the time.

But i encountered a problem while doing this, i would take so little dmg that other healers in pt would not be able to heal me and get SP for cures, my SP was fine debuffing, tanking and healing, but thats kinda expected, right?

I tried a different approach in the end of the party and not taunt at all, just using my spells and hitting and i would not get hate 100% of the time but it was better this way, the mob kept bouncing around and hitting everyone. The only problem with this would be WS one-shotting mages. And SP seemed better not only for me but for others too, but this could be just a fluke since it lasted no more than 6-10 mobs.

I was rank 23 killing Island Crabs, Orobons and Spiders @ Cassiopeia Hollows.


also, you guys think this trait is working as intended? i would think it does, since its very hard to keep up because any buffs, including from other ppl and debuffs from mobs take FC out and rebuilding it sometimes it is not so simple because the mob might be hitting you very hard AND tanking like this might kill others SP.

[#686578]

"Basically, the worst thing about a mage tanking is that other mages wont get curing experience. Otherwise mages tanking is better than tanks tanking" is that what you're saying? I have no frame of reference to tell if this is better than a Gladiator tanking or you're just making the point that it's viable for a mage to tank.

[Drako]

"Basically, the worst thing about a mage tanking is that other mages wont get curing experience. Otherwise mages tanking is better than tanks tanking" is that what you're saying? I have no frame of reference to tell if this is better than a Gladiator tanking or you're just making the point that it's viable for a mage to tank.

well, its not only viable, its better in a sense that you get less damage and more hate than anyone else (including GLAs), do you really understand what -80% dmg reduction would do? while i get hit for 30-60 a GLA would get hit for 150-300 easily.

[Dantrag]

I don't think at this point in the game getting hit for less is all that important. As a CON I get a 90% of my SP in groups from healing. I'd like to keep it that way ^_^;

[miokomioko]

It's pointless until important, long-lasting group battles in the game even exist. Killing crap in this game consists of either a) leve mobs/decent challenges purely for skill, or b) too weaks for farming items.

[Karnja]

my static is around lev 33; im con 32 and thm 30 and within the static i switch between both jobs of surplus.

we have 2 gla, and i make them wear level 1 gear to make them take as much damage as possible.

so like someone mentioned in another thread: you could debuff the hell out of a mob, throw buffs on your pt member, use ws, perfect positioning.... but in the end sp are random generated...

So to answer your question as a mage: even if thm can tank well, i dont want.

[Drako]

from now on when i make pts to tank i will not get a single con in the pt, just wondering if my tanking can hinder others SP, besides obvious GLA and CON.

i dont think other thms would get the worst of it, since they can equally try to tank or debuff/absorb the hell of the mob to get SP. I never played GLA but i tend to think they would get normal SP, probably even better since they dont need to use hate abilities, but they wouldnt get shield SP.

[Karnja]

if you wanne do it that way, you probably cant invite con and thm, as they need to have to use spells that buff.

if i was a gla or pug, i wouldnt want to join your pt as well, because i wanted to tank because of at least the sp from parry and probably also shield.

that leaves it to dd only.

also, cant see any advantage here.

[Drako]

if you wanne do it that way, you probably cant invite con and thm, as they need to have to use spells that buff.

if i was a gla or pug, i wouldnt want to join your pt as well, because i wanted to tank because of at least the sp from parry and probably also shield.

that leaves it to dd only.

also, cant see any advantage here.

the advantage here is only for the thm tanking, i got a lot of SP doing this.

pgl would be ok, he can get hate from thm for the first hits while the thm can build FC, i never partied with a good pgl, so most likely he can steal hate from thm just with a taunt, since they can DD pretty good, GLA would most likely not get any shield skill ups, but hopefully he can get more GLA SP, unless getting hit increases the chance of SP.

i also said this to many melee i will keep saying, everyone should equip taunt/voke, so the mobs can hit everyone in party and healers get more SP.

[Drako]

i also didnt try, but im certain i can tank up to 3 mobs and get hit enough so CONs wont complain.

[aru]

I can't help but feel that FC isn't working as intended. The damage reduction is simply too massive to be considered balanced. I was in a small LS party of archer, lancer & conj (me). Archer was tanking with FC and was taking 30-40 damage, lancer would sometimes pull hate and take over 300 and if I took hate I would quickly get 2-shot (vit is capped and gear is up to date) with my shield up if I wasn't quick to heal myself after every single attack. I fully expect this trait to be nerfed hard whenever they decide to release the next major version update.

[Nevex]

Just nerf THM and CON's ways to generate enmity and boost GLA, leaving the trait alone.
This way mages can't tank, GLA doesn't suck anymore and everyone is happy.
Why do people think that mages must have wet cardboard-like defenses? One great thing about FFXI was that mages (RDM being the prime example) had great survability, unlike every other RPG/MMO out there. It would suck if they changed this in FFXIV.

[Lucavi]

I see what you're saying, Nevex, but you haven't played every other RPG/MMO if you seriously think that all mages are squishy targets.

Just sayin'. I don't need to take it any farther than that.

[Drako]

if they change to work only when casting and not wiping out on buffs it will be enough i guess, this lag would make it impossible to time correctly everytime.

[Meresgi]

I don't think at this point in the game getting hit for less is all that important. As a CON I get a 90% of my SP in groups from healing. I'd like to keep it that way ^_^;

This^, while im not a CON myself right now while people are leveling I dont see this as worth it, It's viable sure, and might be fun end game wise (If we ever get that shit), but right now you're just dicking over other casters trying to get SP.

Or would you not even require a CON in the party and just heal yourself as a tank?

If you don't require a CON and can just tank as a THM with some dps, then yeah that's pretty nice and makes for interesting party groups.

[Drako]

This^, while im not a CON myself right now while people are leveling I dont see this as worth it, It's viable sure, and might be fun end game wise (If we ever get that shit), but right now you're just dicking over other casters trying to get SP.

Or would you not even require a CON in the party and just heal yourself as a tank?

If you don't require a CON and can just tank as a THM with some dps, then yeah that's pretty nice and makes for interesting party groups.

you are perfectly fine without a con if you have FC, you can probably even get a CON and tank 2-3 mobs at same time to get enough dmg, after all, {excitement} {can i have it?}

[Celeras]

Any actual tank class getting FC and curing occasionally would be a better tank than Thm anyway. And when you start fighting things that actually hit hard, you're getting hit for half your HP(as thm) whether or not FC is up regardless. It only has such drastic effects on easy things. Its a defense increase.. not a -% damage.

This is like the Barbs nonsense. Yeah, its overpowered as fuck and I have no idea why it isn't nerfed yet. Anybody can get it, including tanks, and you can kill anything. Not really worth actually using.. as theres nothing in the game you 'just want to kill' without getting any SP yet.

[Lucavi]

Cel, does FC work for tanks 100% un-scaled? If it does, it sounds like a hell of a paladin tool. Open up a fight with a quick spell, then self-cure until the boost hits 80% and go from there.

[Argantes]

In my Cassie crab party yesterday the Glad was getting hit for roughly 400 each hit. I was probably the one spamming cures and sacrifice the most out of all mages there, or I just did it at the right times curing more than others did, cause the Glad would still die on several occasions and I would end up tanking it, getting hit for no more than 70-ish.
I do blame some of the glad's deaths on lag though. Sometimes for no reason at all cure would take 8 seconds to cast, instead of 2.5, which could also be my system or anything, but yeah, back on topic.

It was a life saver I guess, since the crab didn't go on a rampage but I woulnd't want to be tanking full time cause I don't know if my MP would keep up even with Siphon and Exaltation and Styian spikes in the long run.
I didn't try with the spells you mentioned though, I just got hate from Cure II and Sac II.

But yeah, as mentioned by others, being a mage myself, I wouldn't like somoene taking too low damage, especially with more mages in the party curing the tank, already lowering your personal skill gain.
Although Nukes/dart spam etc are great, my best skillups are still from cures.

I'd say use it as back up for when your tanks do go down to prevent a complete wipe, but I wouldn't do it fulltime.

[Drako]

Any actual tank class getting FC and curing occasionally would be a better tank than Thm anyway. And when you start fighting things that actually hit hard, you're getting hit for half your HP(as thm) whether or not FC is up regardless. It only has such drastic effects on easy things. Its a defense increase.. not a -% damage.

This is like the Barbs nonsense. Yeah, its overpowered as fuck and I have no idea why it isn't nerfed yet. Anybody can get it, including tanks, and you can kill anything. Not really worth actually using.. as theres nothing in the game you 'just want to kill' without getting any SP yet.

it doesnt work like defense+ , no matter which mob, if you have FC capped you gonna get hit for 30-80 dmg, thats what i have been seeing fightning different mobs with it, im almost sure its -20% dmg reduction for each spell casted.

and you are right about other tank classes with FC, BUT, they need to equip at least 5 nonbuff spells to cap FC, and it doesnt last long, to keep it up on THM i can spend up to 200mp each fight, its only manageable because syphon mp is so powerful.

other classes might use for a 20-40% damage reduction, but most of their abilities would wipe out FC because they count as buffs.