Things in Egypt about to heat up again. (Revolution part 2)

[Outlaw]

I felt like the thread about the Egyptian revolution was to old to necro bump. Bolded some important parts.

CAIRO -- Egypt is bracing for mass nationwide protests this weekend amid deepening divisions that have set neighbor against neighbor and raised fears of unrest.

Organizers of “June 30” demonstrations -- which mark one year since Islamist President Mohammed Morsi's election -- claim they have the backing of an estimated 15 million Egyptians who want him to resign.

In an example of just how polarized the debate over Egypt’s future has become, Aziz and his family became embroiled in a shouting match with a nearby resident, anti-Morsi computer science student Mohamed Abdul Munim, 23, while being interviewed this week.

The argument, which took place after NBC News filmed a political discussion between the two, ended when Munim stormed off.

The dispute and recent violence -- one man was shot dead and four wounded in an attack on a Muslim Brotherhood office on Thursday -- was an ill omen for Sunday’s marches that will be held a year to the day after Morsi became Egypt's first freely elected leader. The country's powerful army, which helped protesters topple Hosni Mubarak's authoritarian regime in 2011, has reinforced its presence in cities like Cairo and Port Said.

Munim said he believed “most” of Egypt’s registered 50 million voters will be out on the streets, supporting one side or the other.

“We are sure that we will go out and get beaten up by the [Muslim] Brotherhood [but] we are going out despite this," he said. “There is no security, there is economic collapse, the electricity cuts off and everybody is suffering. They will say Morsi is not at fault, but electricity didn’t cut off when the military governed.”

Aziz, meanwhile, said his life had improved under Morsi, and accused the mostly-secular opposition of “waging a war against Islam.”

“Can you build a house in a day? No, it takes time. What can a president do in one year when a country is in ruins? The old [Mubarak] regime stole the country and left it destroyed.”

In a sign of the nervousness many felt, Egyptians were stocking up on food, fuel, water and cash in the days leading up the protests.

Morsi’s supporters claim the demonstration– organized by an opposition umbrella group named "Tamarod," meaning "Rebel" – is setting the stage for a repeat of the 2011 Arab Spring revolution.

Mahmoud Badr, a 28-year-old journalist and founder of the Tamarod movement, dismissed televised speech by Morsi on Wednesday night in which the president appealed for calm.

"Our demand was early presidential elections and since that was not addressed anywhere in the speech then our response will be on the streets on [Sunday]," he told the English-language Egypt Independent news site.

The U.S. Embassy announced Tuesday it would be closing its doors for the day of the demonstrations, but added that “potentially violent protest activity may occur before June 30,” and urged U.S. citizens to “maintain a low profile” from Friday onwards.

Underscoring fears of violence, defenders of Morsi on Tuesday revealed plans to form vigilante groups to protect public buildings from opposition demonstrations, the Egypt Independent reported, quoting Safwat Abdel Ghany, a member of Islamic umbrella organization Jama'a al-Islamiya.

“If chaos sweeps across the country, Islamist groups will secure state institutions and vital facilities against robbery by thugs and advocates of violence," he was quoted as saying.

Members of Tamarod were so confident that they would force Morsi from power that the organization set out a constitutional “road map” that it said would take Egypt forward without a president until new elections.

Eric Trager, fellow at the Washington Institute think tank, said this week that battle lines were drawn between “an enraged opposition” and “an utterly incapable, confrontational ruling party that now counts some of Egypt's most violent political elements as its core supporters.”

“Rising food prices, hours-long fuel lines, and multiple-times-daily electricity cuts -- all worsening amidst a typically scorching Egyptian summer -- have set many Egyptians on edge, with clashes between Brotherhood and anti-Brotherhood activists now a common feature of Egyptian political life," he said.

“Whatever happens on [Sunday], it can't end well,” he added

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...-neighbor?lite

[ringthree]

Another ME revolution subverted by conservative forces that did nothing to start the revolution. It's sad really.

[hey]

Can you build a house in a day?

It's funny because you can.

[Andalusian girls]

Another ME revolution subverted by conservative forces that did nothing to start the revolution. It's sad really.

eh the Brotherhood was always the primary center of defiance to Mubarak's secular tyranny

the media liked to pretend the Arab Spring developed from plucky college students and other western-looking democratic elements but Islamists of varying radicalism usually ocupied a pivotal core of the movements

[ringthree]

eh the Brotherhood was always the primary center of defiance to Mubarak's secular tyranny

the media liked to pretend the Arab Spring developed from plucky college students and other western-looking democratic elements but Islamists of varying radicalism usually ocupied a pivotal core of the movements

Umm, no. The Brotherhood intentionally avoided almost all aspect of the Arab Spring to prevent Mubarak justifying massive intervention. The Brotherhood at the time was horribly fractured and disempowered and only re-emerged after Mubarak was well out of power. Where do you get this revisionist history?

[Andalusian girls]

umm, yes. for decades prior to the revolution the Brotherhood was the most significant, in many ways the only significant, opposition to Mubarak's rule and while it is true they very temporarily stayed out of the protests because of threats from the security apparatus eventually they came to be pivotal members of the movement, publicly announcing their defiance and urging their members to take to the streets as early as the January 25th Day of Revolt + they were some of the loudest voices in calling for the March constitutional referendum.

moreover their decades of suppression under and organization against Mubarak's rule did not lead them to being horribly fractured, though the candidate ban certainly capped their hard power, but rather formed them into the most highly organized and purposeful opposition group which became self-evident as in the immediate aftermath of the demonstrations they put together the most well-honed political machine in the nation enabling Morsi's victory amidst a relatively secular and moderate populace.

[ringthree]

umm, yes. for decades prior to the revolution the Brotherhood was the most significant, in many ways the only significant, opposition to Mubarak's rule and while it is true they very temporarily stayed out of the protests because of threats from the security apparatus eventually they came to be pivotal members of the movement, publicly announcing their defiance and urging their members to take to the streets as early as the January 25th Day of Revolt + they were some of the loudest voices in calling for the March constitutional referendum.

moreover their decades of suppression under and organization against Mubarak's rule did not lead them to being horribly fractured, though the candidate ban certainly capped their hard power, but rather formed them into the most highly organized and purposeful opposition group which became self-evident as in the immediate aftermath of the demonstrations they put together the most well-honed political machine in the nation enabling Morsi's victory amidst a relatively secular and moderate populace.

Even the protesters rejected the Brotherhood because they were seen as a poison pill for any major change. Also the Brotherhood had been crushed and basically completely pushed out of Eqypt for over 10 years.

The reason the Brotherhood won in the election is because the people that took down Mubarak while motivated where a minority and the country was still very conservative. So the minority overthrew the government got help instituting democracy and the public voted their political conscience. Secular and moderate? Where are you getting this stuff?

[Andalusian girls]

relatively being the defining qualifier, and yes Egypt is better educated with a broader urban middle class than most other Middle Eastern nations and despite a few acts of radicalism has a remarkable history of religious tolerance (for the region) regarding their Coptic Christian minorities.

i have no idea where you're getting that the Brotherhood had been pushed out of Egypt for over 10 years, in one of the few semi-kinda-not-even-close-to-being-free elections of Mubarak's regime in 2005 they took 20% of the seats of Parliament despite constant ubiquitous intimidation tactics, or your demonstrably wrong claim that they avoided all aspects of the Arab Spring in Egypt when they were publicly supporting the movement by late January.

[Ksandra]

relatively being the defining qualifier, and yes Egypt is better educated with a broader urban middle class than most other Middle Eastern nations and despite a few acts of radicalism has a remarkable history of religious tolerance (for the region) regarding their Coptic Christian minorities.

I can honestly say from personal experience, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

[ringthree]

I can honestly say from personal experience, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

That was the point that I stopped responding also.

[Ksandra]

I let my cousins who are beaten up at school everyday know that it's ok. Egypt is tolerant to copts so it must be the music they like that's causing all the problems.

[Andalusian girls]

i lack anecdotal experience but Copts are serving and have served as ministers in Egypt's federal government, as governors of her provinces, Coptic Christmas is a federally recognized holiday, the Egyptian Supreme Court recently affirmed the right of individuals to switch from Islam to Christianty with minimal effect on their identification papers (a longstanding civil rights issue) and perhaps most tellingly the last time there was a terrorist attack against the Copts this happened

http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/on...tmas_mass.html

now there remains a heavy institutional bias against them, clearly, they are underrepresented in nearly all aspects of government and face workplace discrimination and sporadic acts of vandalism and terror, but the defining word remains 'relatively', not absolute. the treatment of Copts would be considered shameful in a western nation, and in many ways it is, but compared to how the Israelis treat the Palestinians or the Turks treat the Kurds or the Saudi death penalty for any who dare convert away from Sunni Islam it does stand as one of the most tolerant treatments of a religious and ethnic minorities in the region

[Andalusian girls]

yeah it sucks that your cousins get beaten up but i got attacked constantly right in the good old U.S. of A. for being the wrong ethnic group at school as well, but the defining point remains that on a legal and increasingly cultural basis the Egyptians treat their minorities better than p much anyone else in the region

[ringthree]

i lack anecdotal experience but Copts are serving and have served as ministers in Egypt's federal government, as governors of her provinces, Coptic Christmas is a federally recognized holiday, the Egyptian Supreme Court recently affirmed the right of individuals to switch from Islam to Christianty with minimal effect on their identification papers (a longstanding civil rights issue) and perhaps most tellingly the last time there was a terrorist attack against the Copts this happened

http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/on...tmas_mass.html

now there remains a heavy institutional bias against them, clearly, they are underrepresented in nearly all aspects of government and face workplace discrimination and sporadic acts of vandalism and terror, but the defining word remains 'relatively', not absolute. the treatment of Copts would be considered shameful in a western nation, and in many ways it is, but compared to how the Israelis treat the Palestinians or the Turks treat the Kurds or the Saudi death penalty for any who dare convert away from Sunni Islam it does stand as one of the most tolerant treatments of a religious and ethnic minorities in the region

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...l-8563600.html

That was in April.

You are rolling with the argument that because their isn't a genocide against the Copts, Eqypt is tolerant?

Stop hiding behind the word "relatively". Slavery is "relatively" better than genocide. Neither is of note to defend anything.

[Ksandra]

yeah it sucks that your cousins get beaten up but i got attacked constantly right in the good old U.S. of A. for being the wrong ethnic group at school as well, but the defining point remains that on a legal and increasingly cultural basis the Egyptians treat their minorities better than p much anyone else in the region

You're an idiot.

The teachers ENCOURAGE the beatings because the teachers don't want the Copts there.

There are barricades around the churches because of being attacked going to church [edit] slow on this see Ring3's comment.

After the Arab spring where we got a brief moment of togetherness, Copts were being brutally beaten in the streets.

You don't have a clue, just stop.


I also want to emphasis that if you think people in government positions automatically means religious tolerance then you are an ignorant fool.

Egypt has always tried to pass off a facade of being a melting pot. That doesn't mean they enforce the shit they claim, and that doesn't show what's going on on the inside.

[Andalusian girls]

terrible of course, but the actions of a radicalized minority in an increasingly unstable state which were not condoned by the majority and were explicitly condemned by the acting government which moved to protect them, reminiscent of say the U.S. federal government intervening against a murderous, underrestrained KKK in the South during the 60s

[Andalusian girls]

and ok sweet conversation ksandra

[Ksandra]

terrible of course, but the actions of a radicalized minority in an increasingly unstable state which were not condoned by the majority and were explicitly condemned by the acting government

You don't understand their government at all. Say "oh no stop" and then not doing anything to actually try and stop it, does not make a tolerant country.

It's a facade.

IT's the same way the gov't smiled and thanked us when we gave them millions of dollars every year, and then use their news station to say the US caused all their problems.

[Andalusian girls]

right except Morsi sent orders to disperse the assailants which ended the siege and the next day thousands of moderate and liberal Muslims marched to affirm their solidarity with the Copts

look, I understand you are emotionally invested in the issue because of your family, and I explicitly said the treatment of the Copts was shameful and unacceptable by Western standards, but my only point was that for the region they receive better treatment than basically any other ethnic minority. it's a barbaric and bloodstained corner of the world, that does not excuse the behavior, but you are seeing massive solidarity protests anytime something like this happens and on a legal basis they are achieving more and more rights. it wasn't so long ago blacks were getting lynched by white mobs and repressed on a legal basis in every sense imaginable in the United States, but progress came slowly and gradually from legal victories and shows of solidarity

[Ksandra]

right except Morsi sent orders to disperse the assailants which ended the siege

Except you didn't say "currently". You said "remarkable history."