Magic Accuracy from a Subjob

[Rentwokay]

I had a hard time deciding whether or not this should go in the Advanced forum or the Newbie forum, but if worse comes to worse, it will just be moved, so here we go.

In my routine browsing of various websites, I've come across a number of instances where people posted screenshots of BRD's, SMN's, COR's, and other similar jobs that lack native magic skills successfully sticking enfeebles on Gods in Sky and other similar places. From the way people were describing it, it was a fairly common occurrence, much more common than the horrible magic accuracy associated with a half-leveled magic skill would warrant.

I finally got a chance to see it in action the past few weeks. I joined a start-up Sky linkshell on Seraph, and during our first run against the Gods, we only had two WHM's, no RDM's, and a BRD to work with. We still managed to bring down Seiryu twice with only 12 people, which we were extremely happy about, but that's not the point. Knowing good and well that I wasn't going to have any luck enfeebling the big blue dragon without a hefty amount of luck (a ton of MND and HQ staves, but only +15 Enfeebling from AF Body), I got one Paralyze to stick on wind-based Seiryu out of what seemed like 30 attempts. Not surprising, since a drunken Dick Cheney can enfeeble better than a WHM.

We head back to Sky again yesterday, and this time, I'm the solo WHM and we have two RDM's bringing up the backline. One of the RDM's seemed to not be playing her A-game (a few of the people in her party complained about never getting Refresh or ever seeing her enfeeble) whereas, so we'll ignore her for the moment. The other RDM has a few of the Category 2 merits at some unknown potency, but I don't know how many of the general merits he's dipped into. Either way, he was sticking enfeebles on a fairly regular basis.

And then there's our beloved BRD...

Against Suzaku (or Genbu... I forget which), after our first zombie RDM left, she was sticking Paralyze on a regular basis and laughing about it. This is not some one-time probability fluke. A pseudomage with a half-leveled Enfeebling Magic skill was having less difficulty sticking Paralyze than our full-time RDM.

How many times have you seen this sort of thing? Honestly, with the regularity of it and the number of reported cases, it makes me wonder if there's a bug in the formula, or something, similar to how low-level monsters casting spells on a 75 character were doing full damage a while back.

What do you think?

[Gregorio]

As a BRD, I'll land about 1/5 Silence attempts I'll cast on Kirin when I'm bored. I've landed various other enfeebles on gods/wyrms too (including silencing Vrtra as he was casting sleepga on one of our runs XD ), but I wouldn't exactly call my luck a common occurrence.

Oh, and when I do land non-BRD enfeebles they don't stick very long or proc often (para).

[LinktheDeme]

I had a hard time deciding whether or not this should go in the Advanced forum or the Newbie forum, but if worse comes to worse, it will just be moved, so here we go.

In my routine browsing of various websites, I've come across a number of instances where people posted screenshots of BRD's, SMN's, COR's, and other similar jobs that lack native magic skills successfully sticking enfeebles on Gods in Sky and other similar places. From the way people were describing it, it was a fairly common occurrence, much more common than the horrible magic accuracy associated with a half-leveled magic skill would warrant.

I finally got a chance to see it in action the past few weeks. I joined a start-up Sky linkshell on Seraph, and during our first run against the Gods, we only had two WHM's, no RDM's, and a BRD to work with. We still managed to bring down Seiryu twice with only 12 people, which we were extremely happy about, but that's not the point. Knowing good and well that I wasn't going to have any luck enfeebling the big blue dragon without a hefty amount of luck (a ton of MND and HQ staves, but only +15 Enfeebling from AF Body), I got one Paralyze to stick on wind-based Seiryu out of what seemed like 30 attempts. Not surprising, since a drunken Dick Cheney can enfeeble better than a WHM.

We head back to Sky again yesterday, and this time, I'm the solo WHM and we have two RDM's bringing up the backline. One of the RDM's seemed to not be playing her A-game (a few of the people in her party complained about never getting Refresh or ever seeing her enfeeble) whereas, so we'll ignore her for the moment. The other RDM has a few of the Category 2 merits at some unknown potency, but I don't know how many of the general merits he's dipped into. Either way, he was sticking enfeebles on a fairly regular basis.

And then there's our beloved BRD...

Against Suzaku (or Genbu... I forget which), after our first zombie RDM left, she was sticking Paralyze on a regular basis and laughing about it. This is not some one-time probability fluke. A pseudomage with a half-leveled Enfeebling Magic skill was having less difficulty sticking Paralyze than our full-time RDM.

How many times have you seen this sort of thing? Honestly, with the regularity of it and the number of reported cases, it makes me wonder if there's a bug in the formula, or something, similar to how low-level monsters casting spells on a 75 character were doing full damage a while back.

What do you think?

Could have sworn that they said somewhere in some interview(not with lolsagesundi) that if you /whm you can land light based spells with greater ease and if you /blm you can land dark based spells with greater ease and said that this was the broken part of their game.

[bebeci]

Don't considering anything in sky as the standard test for enfeebling. Honestly, the reason why BRDs can silence Kirn, but RDMs with full enfeebling merits cannot is because it's broken.

Anything outside of sky, RDMs will always win.

[Turin]

Kinda curious what lvl your WHM is and if your enfeebling skill is capped. Maybe this is similar to the success rate of charm when /BST?

[Krandor]

Kinda curious what lvl your WHM is and if your enfeebling skill is capped. Maybe this is similar to the success rate of charm when /BST?

Pretty sure BST and Charm is the only thing that functions in the way that success rate is based off the jobs raw level, not what level it is subbed or mained.

[Jeryhn]

I've always figured that when it comes to magic, there's a cap on inaccuracy just as much as there's a cap on accuracy.

To put it better:
There's always a 5% chance a mob will resist your spell, no matter your skill level, and there's always a 5% chance you'll land a spell, no matter how much skill you lack.

Kinda explains how a Bard will land Silence on Kirin, while it also explains how that fucking Goblin Weaver in West Sarutabaruta managed to land Bind on me on my RDM75.

Also:

Anything outside of sky, RDMs will always win.

^ Going to agree with this one.

[LinktheDeme]

I've always figured that when it comes to magic, there's a cap on inaccuracy just as much as there's a cap on accuracy.

To put it better:
There's always a 5% chance a mob will resist your spell, no matter your skill level, and there's always a 5% chance you'll land a spell, no matter how much skill you lack.

Kinda explains how a Bard will land Silence on Kirin, while it also explains how that fucking Goblin Weaver in West Sarutabaruta managed to land Bind on me on my RDM75.

Also:

Anything outside of sky, RDMs will always win.

^ Going to agree with this one.

DIDNT KNOW ABSOLUTE VIRTUE WAZ IN SKY

[vegetaa]

I've always figured that when it comes to magic, there's a cap on inaccuracy just as much as there's a cap on accuracy.

To put it better:
There's always a 5% chance a mob will resist your spell, no matter your skill level, and there's always a 5% chance you'll land a spell, no matter how much skill you lack.

Exactly. I don't know about the 5% figure, it seems most common to me, especially in sky.

You know sky gods are broken when you manage to land Jubaku on Kirin, twice in a row, as MNK/NIN with uncapped ninjutsu ><

[Demitrius]

If it's 5%, then I've seen some really strange anomalies. Like a BRD silecing Suzaku's Chainspell three fights in a row. Re-silencing when it wore. That sort of thing. It seems to go off a LOT more than it should, and definitely way more than 5%. At 335 enfeebling these are spells I have a hard time landing, and yet the bards can land them like nothing. Something's broken up there.

[Rocl]

I've always figured that when it comes to magic, there's a cap on inaccuracy just as much as there's a cap on accuracy.

To put it better:
There's always a 5% chance a mob will resist your spell, no matter your skill level, and there's always a 5% chance you'll land a spell, no matter how much skill you lack.

Kinda explains how a Bard will land Silence on Kirin, while it also explains how that fucking Goblin Weaver in West Sarutabaruta managed to land Bind on me on my RDM75.

Also:

Anything outside of sky, RDMs will always win.

^ Going to agree with this one.

DIDNT KNOW ABSOLUTE VIRTUE WAZ IN SKY

I didn't know anyone could enfeeble Absolute Virtue

[Sidanoir]

BRD silencing gods and stuff seems like a fluke programming oversight or a programmers joke..

Like da Invisible "counter" of Genbu...or Tiamat...lolGlitch
Or when Goblin Rush did 1/3rd damage and was 1 hit..even though 3 hit animation...

I think they just never thought someone with that low of a skill would cast...so they did something screwy in sky? IDK...it definitely doesn't make sense in the 5% chance to always land thing...

Cause if its 5% chance to land I gotta tell you I think bards have like a 25% or higher rate of silencing suza from what I have seen...maybe even more so..
When a RDM with stacked enfeeble gear max wind merits cant land it...it just seems like a programming oversight...someone that made gods thoguht it would be funny if someone with no enfeeble can silence them idk..the unexplained wonders of Vana'diel?

[Jeryhn]

If it's 5%, then I've seen some really strange anomalies. Like a BRD silecing Suzaku's Chainspell three fights in a row. Re-silencing when it wore. That sort of thing. It seems to go off a LOT more than it should, and definitely way more than 5%. At 335 enfeebling these are spells I have a hard time landing, and yet the bards can land them like nothing. Something's broken up there.

What are the chances that an LS will go into Dynamis-Beaucedine and get DRG, BST, both, or multiples of any of the above?

Statistically, not very good, if all relic drops are supposed to be able to drop at the same percentage rate, but I'll bet my balls everyone here has experienced this kind of drop more than once upon multiple excursions into the Glacier.

It's possible that the "cap" on inaccuracy is 5%, and because of the broken way this game tends to deal in patterns (multiple pieces of same AF dropping in Dynamis/Limbus frequently), your BRD is just getting lucky and casting the spell in that 5% over and over again.

Also:

DIDNT KNOW ABSOLUTE VIRTUE WAZ IN SKY

I didn't know anyone could enfeeble Absolute Virtue

^ lol

[Septimus]

No, the explanation is much more simple than all of that.

It is just another example of Square's overt contempt for Red Mages. >_>

[Bununyunu]

I am going out on a limb by considering factors BRD might have going for it. What sort of testing has been done regarding stacking +CHR as RDM to get enfeebling spells to stick?

[Cyrus_Phoenix]

What are the chances that an LS will go into Dynamis-Beaucedine and get DRG, BST, both, or multiples of any of the above?

Statistically, not very good, if all relic drops are supposed to be able to drop at the same percentage rate, but I'll bet my balls everyone here has experienced this kind of drop more than once upon multiple excursions into the Glacier.

If you went and looked statistically at your drops I'm sure you would find that things balanced out a little over time. There is a large amount of randomness to dynamis drops but mostly the reason why people point out BST and DRG AF drop so much is simply because you notice it that much more because they are largely shunned jobs and most people tend not to have many dragoons or beastmasters in their LS to lot them. To DynamisBums both are actually sort of a rare drop. For the first year and a half of DynamisBums, Ninja AF2 body was a complete myth. Then it dropped on an attestation run from a Hydra and then over a period of a couple months several others dropped from various mobs.

[Rocl]

I am going out on a limb by considering factors BRD might have going for it. What sort of testing has been done regarding stacking +CHR as RDM to get enfeebling spells to stick?

That's why AF1 body has 15 enfeebling AND 5 CHR!

[LinktheDeme]

I've always figured that when it comes to magic, there's a cap on inaccuracy just as much as there's a cap on accuracy.

To put it better:
There's always a 5% chance a mob will resist your spell, no matter your skill level, and there's always a 5% chance you'll land a spell, no matter how much skill you lack.

Kinda explains how a Bard will land Silence on Kirin, while it also explains how that fucking Goblin Weaver in West Sarutabaruta managed to land Bind on me on my RDM75.

Also:

Anything outside of sky, RDMs will always win.

^ Going to agree with this one.

DIDNT KNOW ABSOLUTE VIRTUE WAZ IN SKY

I didn't know anyone could enfeeble Absolute Virtue

^Ho Check

[Rocl]

A) That's not a valid hoe check.

B) I demand a rule be put in place to ban people who ho check on the forums.

C) Why do people call me Cocl They're so mean

[Jeryhn]

Ho Check

http://www.ballerstatus.net/images/n...s/rudejude.jpg
You're ugly, and you're wrong.