No education vs education

[Takeno]

So today I got in an argument with one of my friends (again) about the kind of salary a construction workers makes compared to someone who has a college degree. His argument (which is very poor in my opinion) is that while the college student is going to be in school, the construction worker getting paid 40,000 dollars a year (that's being optimistic) will be at least 4 years ahead of the college student once he gets out of college. Meaning the construction worker will have earned 160,000 by the time the student gets out in the field. Now, my counterpart of the argument is that even though the construction worker has made more money in the beginning, the college student will earn a lot more money in the long run. Not to mention with work that is considerably easier on one's body. To me, that is common sense, but the guy just keeps arguing that someone that doesnt have an education has the same chances to be "successful" as someone who does. Although it has happened in the past in some cases, it is very rare. In my opinion my friend just wants to justify his lack of effort in his studies, but reality is going to give him a hard blow when he realizes how much of dead end job it is. Finally, he also argues that you can get promoted faster while being a construction worker than the college student. I did my research on what a construction worker can end up as, compared to a civil engineer. Now the construction worker can end up being supervisor at 50,000 dollars a year, while the newly graduated engineer starts off at a minimum of 47,000.

What does BG think? Am I right, am I wrong? Does this apply to other parts of industry?

[Ganzar]

Your friend is trying to justify himself for being lazy and not going to college.

If you really want to look at how far ahead the construction worker will be ahead, you would have to add on the student loans also.

Either way, how much your job pays is only part of being successful. How you spend/invest the money you make plays a much larger role.

[layoneil]

it's way too vague to generalize either way.

it depends greatly on what they go to school for, what they decide to do after going to school (most people don't work in their field of study).

people who make the most money are people who are successful in business and you can start a business with or without a college degree.

my general opinion is, if you're not a very academic person, you're not going to be much worse off going to a trade school or getting a job right after high school.

having a degree gives you more opportunities but just because you have one doesn't guarantee you a good job or career.

[Remyo]

what part of construction are you talking about? they have different sections that get paid different wages. operator makes more than a laborer, duct workers get paid less than the iron workers, etc. etc.
Adding to the argument: my dad only has a GED, but owns his own masonry company now making about 4 grand a day. it took him awhile to do it but it happened. he pushes me to get my degree so I don't have to do what he did.

[tyven]

i wish i could get a job out of college starting at 40 thousand...

[Zanz L. Barre The 3rd]

Also, for his side of the argument; he won't have to pay student loans.

But yeah, I'd like to think the college graduate would make more money overtime.

[Correction]

What's more, 'construction' is incredibly broad. Does he mean the guy who hauls shit in a truck all day and is told to strike by mafia bosses? Or the electrician who has to make sure all the wiring is up to code and passes final inspection once the structure is built?

The former job requires little/no education. The latter requires extensive training and education.

In the former case, I don't see him making a lot of money regardless.

[quannum]

a college student can work a part-time job/internship or 2 and only accept grants, which would knock a considerable chunk out of that 4yr*(40k/yr) advantage.

how long can you work construction before your knees blow out? i spose a flipside is how long till your IT job gets outsourced?

[Quixon]

There's no right or wrong answer.


I went to college for 2 years, and dropped out b/c I hated it. That was 02' - 04', for the passed two years I've been working in sales for a manufacturing company, and I make roughly $55,000/Year. My salary increases every year, because my commission increases every year. I'd be doing the exact same thing as I am now if I went to school and got my bachelor's degree.

To simply say "I will make more money than you b/c I go to college" is ridiculous. Out of the 20-30 some people I am still in contact with from my graduating class not a single one has gotten a job yet in the career they went to school for. My friend who majored in economics and graduated with a 3.8 GPA is working as a sales associate @ IZOD b/c he can't find a job.

[Fhqwghads]

Shit is situational.

[Raiko]

In Scotland, at least, it actually pays off more these days to have a trade skill, such as spark, plumber etc. The majority of people my ages parents seemed to have not the best upbringing and worked their asses off to get their kids to uni (college) and give them the best start in life, but that resulted in my generation having a lack of the afore mentioned workers.

I personally began studying media, but recently dropped out half way through 2nd year to pursue an apprenticeship as an electrician, as there are waaaay too many people with degrees and not enough jobs to go around. I'm now studying night classes in maths and basic electronics so I'm not going into it blind.

4 of my cousins spent 4 years at uni and racked up shit loads of debt and now can't get any jobs to pay off those loans. In my part time job I work with someone who has a degree in psychology and earns £6.50($13) an hour cause he can't get a job for shit. So, in truth his arguement, in my country at least, seems to be decent.

[Khamsin]

What's more, 'construction' is incredibly broad. Does he mean the guy who hauls shit in a truck all day and is told to strike by mafia bosses? Or the electrician who has to make sure all the wiring is up to code and passes final inspection once the structure is built?

The former job requires little/no education. The latter requires extensive training and education.

In the former case, I don't see him making a lot of money regardless.

I'd imagine he meant the kind of construction work that doesn't require training or education.

a college student can work a part-time job/internship or 2 and only accept grants, which would knock a considerable chunk out of that 4yr*(40k/yr) advantage.

how long can you work construction before your knees blow out? i spose a flipside is how long till your IT job gets outsourced?

He could also do something other than IT. There's a ton of high paying jobs that require a degree, training, and certification out there that aren't the kind to be outsourced.

[Angelsin]

i wish i could get a job out of college starting at 40 thousand...

Accountant + Alberta = 40k a year or more + benefits EASILY.

I agree with Quixon though, while I wanted to go to college (and did) because of the career path I wanted it may not work for others. My boss is a good example. I'm older than him and he's worth millions because of his 'street smarts' and his ability to sell/develop his business.

[Quixon]

a college student can work a part-time job/internship or 2 and only accept grants, which would knock a considerable chunk out of that 4yr*(40k/yr) advantage.

Lol...unless you're extremely lucky you aren't paying off 160k just from grants. Most kids in college have part time jobs just to pay for their weekly expenses.

[archibaldcrane]

having a degree gives you more opportunities but just because you have one doesn't guarantee you a good job or career.

I have a master's degree and I've never topped 30k a year. My uncle barely graduated high school and he's a millionaire many times over. Of course going to college gives you higher average income potential (meaning your friend is a moron, obviously) and if you're just going to try for the highest payday in or out of college, college is going to win. But yeah, that construction worker would be making more than me, and not have 42k in student loans either.

[Skyylya]

well, generally speaking you're always better off going to college, but as i think layonel said above it is to vague to say x has degree and does better than y.

My starting salary with my job wasn't that great, just under 30k a year. However, i've already been promoted (i'm still poor now though ) and will probably make about 40-50k+ in my first full year and easily can make 80-100k+ within probably 2 years at what i'm doing assuming nothing happens and I continue working here (i'm only 24).

I could not have gotten this job without a college degree, and I can easily be ahead of your friend even after paying my student loans within 5 years and pull ahead very quickly, and all i had was a degree in psychology. It really depends on what you do after college, but going is definitely important and can open a lot of doors. I was lucky to get my job and this won't happen to everyone, but had I not gone to college i'd probably be making about 40k a year at my old job that I most likely would've stayed with and been breaking my back til either it killed me or I retired as an old man (I worked at a concrete block manufacturing plant). I could easily retire at 50-55 and be set for life working an easy 40 hr/wk job since I took the 4+ years to get my degree.

[Skyylya]

having a degree gives you more opportunities but just because you have one doesn't guarantee you a good job or career.

I have a master's degree and I've never topped 30k a year. My uncle barely graduated high school and he's a millionaire many times over. Of course going to college gives you higher average income potential (meaning your friend is a moron, obviously) and if you're just going to try for the highest payday in or out of college, college is going to win. But yeah, that construction worker would be making more than me, and not have 42k in student loans either.

sounds like you need a new field of work more than anything. What is it that you do?

[Aerin]

There was something in the news recently about College students being unable to find jobs. Particularly in the Science and Math fields. Kind of ironic, you take the hardest things to learn and pay the people that actually are able to comprehend it with "No jobs for you."

[Jer]

It really does depends on what your major is, where you went to college, where you plan on living, and what exactly your alternative would be if you didn't. I don't know if it fits for construction in general, but a lot of private construction for things like homes is slowing down due to economy. Though that might also affect the job you get after college depending on the industry. The average starting salary for graduating seniors at my college is 55-60 depending on major with a 95% placement rate at the end of last year I think it was, but then with averages for every person that got hired for 40 or below you have the guy that got hired for 90. As for the bills that mount up during college, most have some kind of job to help out and some college have excellent co-op programs where you work for the companies for a semester or two while still being 'enrolled full-time' and get paid for it. I started college in 02 (several semesters were doing the co-op thing so I wasn't attending classes) and when I graduate in May I'll only owe like 8 grand. That being said there are always people that are outliers. Those ones that don't have much education to speak of, but they figure out how to give people something they want or atleast think they want, while on the other end you have highly educated people who just don't have any luck.

[Thoronas]

I personally think you are wasting your time arguing with your friend over who will make more money.

Can a person doing construction make more than a college graduate over a life time? Yes.

But the thing is that college is not just about making money. People who reduce higher education to nothing but a certificate that enables you to get into high paying jobs have reduced the college experience into a vocational school, which isn't really the point behind higher education. You can become a deep sea welder and make six figures for five years until your body can no longer handle the pressures of the deep ocean then retire feeling like you've done better than most college graduates. But what do you do with all your money? Ever notice how most guys in construction spend all the money they make on booze, gambling, and women? It's because many of them simply don't know what else to do with it so they do the same thing they did when they were young, they party.

If your friend doesn't want to go to college then leave it be. That's his decision in life and from what you've said about him it's probably the right decision. He might end up making more money than you and he might not. If you're going into university just to make money well you should really be looking at how university will help you make money because as some people have already pointed out you don't always get a good job just because you got a degree.

Also watch this.