Paladins..

[Marcicus]

Does it piss you off when WHMs cast Regen on you for fights that last longer than five minutes? Does it fuck with your emnity?

I already know the answer to this, but this thread was mainly created to knock some sense into a certain somebody (Kaparu).

[Eaglestrike]

No?

[Marcicus]

Like I said, I already knew the answer was no. But just for the sake of my pretending I don't know how Regen is good for a Paladin and how it's good for a White Mage to cast it, please explain it to me.

[Eaglestrike]

The only way I can see Regen being "bad" is if the PLD is taking so little damage their only form of enmity is from macroing in +hp gear to cure themself. As such Regen would reduce how much you heal. But since I think that's not too often I don't see how Regen is a bad thing. It's a pretty mp efficient way to heal and if you're casting regen you're not casting cures which can cockblock the PLD's attempts to cure itself when they do take damage.

[Sepuku]

Keeps the PLD alive and if he really has to deal with hate controle which i doubt with all the job abilities, then spam cure on other members will get hate back!
Flash ,Rampart,Sentinel,Shield bash,Provoke, defender,
or with nin sub spam kurayami.
I really apreciate a whm casting Regen on me.

[Drunkenmonk]

whms who overcure are a bigger problem, just have to get them in the mindset that plds are the main healers, they are there they are there for when/if the shit hits the fan. regen is fine as long as i have someone to cure.

[Drunkenmonk]

Keeps the PLD alive and if he really has to deal with hate controle which i doubt with all the job abilities, then spam cure on other members will get hate back!
Flash ,Rampart,Sentinel,Shield bash,Provoke, defender,
or with nin sub spam kurayami.
I really apreciate a whm casting Regen on me.

this is retarded and a waste of 4 secs, better off doing so many other things imo.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I believe this came up months ago.

For me the answer is no thanks on that Regen. It screws with my tanking style.

or with nin sub spam kurayami.

and this is one of the saddest things i've ever read.

[Woozie]

I sit at 100% hp too often when NIN sub. This eliminates the whole "regen is more mp efficient than cures" because it's not doing anything most of the time it's up. Me and the PLDs I tank with are trigger happy with our cure buttons, and as soon as one of the tanks takes damage, he's usually cured back to full immediately by himself or the other PLD.

The only way I can see regen being useful is when /war, because you pretty much always have some missing HP. But when was the last time any of us subbed war outside of dynamis anyways?

[Sepuku]

I believe this came up months ago.

For me the answer is no thanks on that Regen. It screws with my tanking style.

or with nin sub spam kurayami.

and this is one of the saddest things i've ever read.

explain!

[orinthia]

A <30 second flash doesn't generate any hate apparently.
I cure blms and outside tank pt brds out of their latents for moar hate, but then everyone starts hating me

[Eldelphia]

I would have thought ( please correct me if wrong) that a regen interferes less in hate management?

It bugs me somewhat when a WHM sticks regen III on a NIN when they're 100 HP down though. They're not going to get hit enough in the time regen is on to make it worth it and if a NIN gets into trouble, they need more than a regen III.

Some fights though, casting regen III takes too long and too many other things can go wrong in that time. Depends really on numbers there, the sort of fight, the mob's tp moves and the reliability of other mages.

[Charismatic]

I would have thought ( please correct me if wrong) that a regen interferes less in hate management?

It bugs me somewhat when a WHM sticks regen III on a NIN when they're 100 HP down though. They're not going to get hit enough in the time regen is on to make it worth it and if a NIN gets into trouble, they need more than a regen III.

Some fights though, casting regen III takes too long and too many other things can go wrong in that time. Depends really on numbers there, the sort of fight, the mob's tp moves and the reliability of other mages.

Regen doesn't mess with hate at all unless your tank has a strange style of tanking.
Keep tossin' those regens out there!

[Starr]

Don't waste time arguing with Kaparu, his highest job is like 66 and he's quit yet thinks he's played the whole game.

[Woozie]

A <30 second flash doesn't generate any hate apparently.
I cure blms and outside tank pt brds out of their latents for moar hate, but then everyone starts hating me

I'm glad I'm not the only one who does that, lol

[Grey Jorildyn]

I believe this came up months ago.

For me the answer is no thanks on that Regen. It screws with my tanking style.

or with nin sub spam kurayami.

and this is one of the saddest things i've ever read.

explain!

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=18612&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=cu re+swap&start=0

[Fridell]

Eh, more Regen and less Cure spam on PLD.

[Sepuku]

Ok i have read the whole topic.( god i hate links with more than 1 page)
Quintessence:
Some people say yes some say no.

I d still prefer, when i am double PLD/NIN tanking Fafhogg Aspids or behe-kite or any sky god , a nice Regen and a whm that supports me, gives me the feeling to be on the safe side and not loose the claim.
Hurricane wing will go through shadows, there is quite a bit of mob moves that ignore shadows,
or Absolute terror will stop you from doing ANY action.
In that case the second PLD covers and takes over hate controle.
I have never had a whm take hate from me unless he spams cure 4.
And even for that case we would have a thf TA-ing on us constantly.
And of course also making E/A bodies and Ridills drop ^^.

Please explain with your own words Merona what is your point, besides saying its the saddest thing you ever read. Remember this is the newbie section and we want to help the newcomers.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Alrighty.

Two of the points brought up in this thread were that there are better ways to utilize 4 seconds worth of time to gain hate (re: kurayami) and also that paladins find themselves sitting at 100% too often. Now in most scenarios, if the paladin isn't taking damage, neither is anyone else in the alliance (assuming you're doing your job of tanking to begin with).

I used to find myself in a similar situation, but while I was standing around not doing a whole lot, other people were pulling hate and I using up shadows, blink, stoneskin, and their hate was generally not degrading any faster than mine. So I had to devise a way to create bursts of hate while at 100% HP. After some somepage searches I found that I could raise my HP to cure III range, pop one out, and then swap back out of that gear. Thus I could create the bursts of hate I wanted for no more MP than I would normally spend. Flash just doesn't cut it the way my linkshell kills things (we strive for clean, speedy kills on things like Tiamat, Jorm, ToAU HNMs because when they die isn't really that important). Our methods stretch enmity to the limits. We don't really use SMN as much as other linkshells either, but we do have about a dozen in the woodwork. As you read in the topic, if Regen III ticks back during the swap, I could lose a potential 25 hp cured (depending on WHM's gear/merits mind you).

Anyway, the other option people brought up was the berserker's torque swap. While this is a perfectly viable way to drop your HP, it takes 4 ticks while wearing it to get to the desired HP amount that is curable. When you need hate fast, 4 ticks is a long time to wait. After a horrid roar especially. During those 4 ticks, a cure swapping paladin could cure III 2-3 times and have made far more hate back than the paladin using the berserker's torque. And, in either case, Regen III messes up your grand plan, even more so when using the berserk's torque since you figure it is forcing the berserker's torque to function at half it's wanted efficiency (ie. instead of -50hp/tick, regen is negating half of that each tick. DOH!).

If you are looking to create bursts of hate and you and all the members of your alliance are at full HP, get a cure swap. Generally it involves the RSE belt, BQR, and a gigant mantle. Some substitutes exist if you search for somepage properly (ie. Valor Cape for Tarutaru). The cure swap is potentially more costly and requires 3 pieces of gear, 1-2 of which you might already carry as a paladin for various reasons. The berserker's torque option is much cheaper of course and takes up only one inventory slot, plus it has the option of waking you from sleep so you might also consider carrying that full-time as well.

I hope this has answered your queries.

P.S. lolkurayami

[Aymee]

If you are looking to create bursts of hate and you and all the members of your alliance are at full HP, get a cure swap.

What are you fighting? o.0 If it's anything worth an alliance I'd assume there'd never be more than 10-15 seconds of this on like... a Kirin superlongcasting. Kudos to your mages if they can keep everyone in white hp.

I wanted to answer the original question from a blinktank point of view (since I'm either war/nin or nin/war 90% of the time)... even as a frail little helpless blinker, I like my WHM to use regen first, lol. It's hard to explain the right circumstances--for stuff more involved than general exp/merit, but for stuff not as involved as gods where <3 the spamcures.
Hmm, like in Nyzul I like this. I just about always have a pleasant meritted Regen3 on me, and so long as I'm kept above 50% hp I don't generally care. Reason? It let's my WHM use flash [without any fear at all] when a might desperately need it (an Ichi cast)... especially important for a WAR. Though this does assume your WHM is smart enough to know what kind of mob has the ability to 1-shot and when. ...Oh, and you can laugh at lack of hate control to a mere WHM flash, but I'm a squishy WAR/NIN trying to take on full-time tanking concerns with 6 shadows and little support.

In short, if even while blinking I like not always being at 100% HP, I can see no reason whatsoever why a PLD wouldn't love it.