Question on LBC set-up

[Renzoukan]

I have a salvage group that does a lot of farm runs, and were gonna start moving to Chariots now, I was wondering how Viable War/nin are for tanking chariots? I've heard war/nin can do decently if equipped and done right. our group has access to 2-3 war/nin and 1 nin/war. IDK how this set-up would work:

War/nin
War/nin
Nin/War
Rdm/Whm
Rdm/Whm
Whm/Blm
Brd/Whm
Blm/Rdm
Thf/???(Thf also has BLM, just thought THF would help drops)

[mackerel]

Your setup is good, warrior works fine for every part of salvage. I do recommend not-Ridill for chariots, and don't even consider any zone without a THF.

[Seditedi]

WAR can tank LBC, but not as well as MNK.
Gaxe WARS would probably be best, least TP fed.

[SamanosukeShiva]

dont really need THF for LBC unless you're doing rampart also otw. cells drop rate on bhaflau is retardedly high

[Ahlah]

If you main aim to complete armour upgrade focus on killing all 10 gears on 4th floor. Nerfed LBC is almost always a guaranteed win. Don't worry if your group miss 1 gear cuz Homing Missile hate reset effect is single target only if 9 out of 10 gears are killed.

Get one of you RDM to sub NIN and bring tank gear. If your group is forced to fight unnerfed LBC, WAR tanks should focus on repositioning themselves to avoid HM and mages should erase Bind as soon as possible. RDM/NIN should stay out of HM range and spam spells to build hate (the usual Blind > Bind > Sleep > Sleep2). If HM does go off, RDM/NIN move in to tank LBC and stop casting hate spells while WAR/NIN try to get hate back with provoke/warcry and melee hits. Once WAR re-establish hate RDM/NIN should move out of HM range.

If RDM/NIN get hit by HM, chainspell cure/Bind allows instant regain of hate.

[Darkmoon]

My group uses WAR/nin as our main tanks on everything in Salvage. We have 5 that rotate on it, usualy have 2-4 in a run depending on run.

BC and AC are easy to tank with it, you only need 2.

LAC I like having 3, that way when 1 gets charmed, and the second is slow, we still had a 3rd tank to get hate easier. But honestly LAC is redicously easy if ppl can just scatter.

LBC can be or a totaly bitch depending on if weakened. If you weaken it, 2 WAR/nin can front tank it np. If you don't then your WAR/nins better be on the ball. We actually try to have 3-4 on LBC runs. This lets us have tank pairs. First pair on side tanking, 2nd pair outside building secondary hate to be thrown in if first pair eats HM. You can also do this with like posted above with a RDM/nin, or in your case a NIN/war, we have even used PLD/NIN to be outside or main tank on un-weak LBC. Basically LBC is all about dealing with that HM your going to eat exactly when its a bad moment. With WAR/nins over MNKs your going to make it spam more TP moves, regardless of if you use GAX (which if you use anthing but GAX, you should be shot).

As far as support we generaly have 2x WHMs 1x RDM 1x BRD(Ghorn)

[Scorp]

A blm will speed up the run more than a thf but the thf can help a lot if HM goes off on an unweak LBC. I don't like planning too fail though so blm XD.

With your set up for LBC, unweak. 2 wars on it, assign a rdm to enfeebles/hastes and 1 rdm 1 whm to each of the tanks. They prioritise erase/para/cures.

The nin/war stands off LBC keeping hate so that if HM does go off it he can kite/tank rather than the mages.

If you have 2 blm's have them on stun rotation so that when LBC turns they stun to allow the tanks to adjust and prevent HM. If you have 1 blm have him do that to and have the thf accomplice the rdm healing the 2nd tank.

At 28% ish turn, rest to full, SV and 2hr it down.

If you weaken it to 9/10 or 10/10 you won't have any problems at all.

For other chariots - LAC I prefer war/nin since you can full time dusk gloves and have no issue charmed. BC it doesn't really matter as long as you position correctly. For AC you would maybe need to have the melee with the most haste gear as main tanks. Since it is preferable to keep 2+ shadows up as much as possible.

The only thing i'd maybe want to add to your set up is a cor for more mp for mages and mnk/double attack rolls on the melee.

[Darkmoon]

AC isn't that bad with WAR tanks even if they lack some haste gear, we actually on one run got really screwed up on either Magic or subs I forget which atm. Ended up with 1 WAR/NIN with both, other didnt have one. We actually tanked it just fine with both of them, just healing through Mortal Rev. Yeah they take a good smack on Rev, but with the hate they can generate its nothing that can't be handled with a couple healers easy enough. Rune Chopper + (Ares body or Yag Drinks or Strage Juice) can help a WAR a great deal for haste setup on tanking fast Chariots also.

[Xanthu]

How good to these WARs need to be on gear, and anything different than normal merit setups? We're pretty par on gear at best, Salvage is really our first full foray into endgame, some people have an extra piece of nice stuff here and there, but we're mostly an AH-built group.

We've only taken two shots at an unnerfed LBC, managed 50%ish avoiding HM, but one tank went down then, other quickly followed, and we ran out of time. More likely we got lucky to get that far? or unlucky not getting far enough?

Edit: Rune Choppers....we can do Rune Choppers...

[chapstick]

It wasn't luck or of luck, as much as it was lack of experience. The more you do it the better you'll get at it. If the WAR's recasts are capped via song or gear or spell, and can hit it, they should be okay.

[Kaeko]

I'm kind of interested in your WARs using Rune Choppers. Pretty cheesy idea but I like!

Do you just throw a refresh on the WAR to keep the latent active? Also, does the 9% Haste make up for the loss of attack or damage potential per swing (sorry melee n00b here). I'd be really interested in seeing any equip setups you have for bosses.

Also, is MNK roll noticable on bosses without having a MNK?

[chapstick]

Just refresh would be enough to keep Rune Chopper's haste active. Judging by Wiki's stats for Monk's roll, a perfect 11 w/o MNK is still +36 Subtle blow (instead of 47 with monk), which seems like alot to me.

[Darkmoon]

First Question on Gear:

All 4 of them are 8/8 GAX merits besides that:

War 1: (Far from capped haste gear)
Wep: Rune Chopper
Head: W.Turban
Body: Ares
Hands: AF2 (lol)
Legs: Baron (lol again, we have a huge Byakko list, and he is only WAR in Salvage, main job PLD)
Feet: Amir
Rings/etc are standard Merit stuff.

War 2,3,4:
Wep: Rune Chopper if needed, Perdu if not.
Head: W.Turban
Body: Ares/Hauby/Hauby+1
Hands: Dusk/Dusk+1
Legs: Byakko
Feet: Dusk/Uni
Rings/etc are all standard

Notes:
-none have Ceberus, they are using Amm+1 or Foragers.

War #1 is a carear tank (Aegis PLD) and has the most tanking experience so he tanks a lot, as you can tell he lacks quite a bit of merit/high end WAR gear, but honeslty he has solo tanked LBC for a good deal of time in that gear np.

War #2-4 are all Merit WARs and 2/3 have PLD & NIN lvled so they have again good tanking experience, the 4th is THF and WAR only so he learned to WAR tank in Salvage on Bosses ^^.

So Id say no, your wars dont need crazy gear, but decent gear is nice, Rune Chopper is a huge haste diffrence, and Yags/Strage Juice/Refresh help.


Keako:

We actually dont even focus on the refresh on them, They can pop a Yag/Juice on bosses and it will last most the fight, We tend to not have RDM in tank pt (ill explain in a sec). I do however hit them with a Ballad if needed so they either have March/Min, or March/Ballad2. I do have Ghorn, so that makes a pretty big diffrence in the mp they get.

Our standard tank pt for Bosses is

WAR/nin
WAR/nin
WAR/nin
WHM/xxx
WHM/xxx
BRD/WHM

We could rotate to 2 WAR/NINs, and a RDM in, but I like leaving the RDM out to the 2nd party with the BLM(s) and just having the 3rd WAR get songs for more damage. Again I think a Fife BRD could keep the MP flowing just fine on the bosses, we rarly if ever have any MP issues.

For smaller groups 2 WARs problay works, we just go with more since we have 11 ppl in our group, and tend to have 9-11 on at all times. Yeah it gets a little crazy at times, but its a good group and we dont want to cut members.

I think one of the best things with the whole WAR tanks in Salvage we found is the ammount of control we have with hate. First box Ability cell on a war = voke on every mob. And hate is never ever and issue on chariots/NMs/Gears. The one disadvantage we find is if a zone like AR has low Incus, you hurt for damage compared to MNK setup, but we have aliveated that by just bringing a BB MNK/war to tear up the first few floors, while we gear the WAR tanks.

edit: Spelling...

[Xanthu]

This is all very encouraging, we had been getting discouraged from looking around, worrying that we'll have to get MNKs leveled up, take on KS99s, but it sounds like we're there/really goddamn close.

Quickshot: Osode, Hauberk(hauby even?), or SH for tanking?

[Darkmoon]

Hauby or Berk is fine. WARs flat out done evade, they will take hits some times, thats fine. Make sure your brd is good at judging distance so he can Song them without being in Inerta Stream or Discharge range.

On Weak LBC, BC, and AC we front tank them, so its really easy on BRD.
On Un weak LBC and LAC we side tank them to know when they are going to HM & Brainjack, so again this isnt that hard on the bard if your tanks are smart and all stay to the same side. If they dont, then its near impossible to Song both and stay out of range. This is easily cured by songing one, and then waiting for the other to get mad, and then move to where the songs are at .

From what I saw in your Jobs, you guys look fine.

if you want a test run of what your worst Chariot would be like, grab your setup, and go fight Hyrda, you can take him with 3 XXX/nin tanks pretty easy. If you can kill it easy or do decently well on it, then I don't see any reason why you would have issues with LAC, BC, AC or weak LBC. Un weak LBC is very much a skill challenge (more so for larger groups imo).

[Veli]

My ls we just let everyone melee and LBC is dead in 3-4 minutes.

[Shassira]

My ls we just let everyone melee and LBC is dead in 3-4 minutes.

I'm curious... to kill a charriot in 3 minutes you need to deal a bit more than 16.000 dmg per minute. Let's say a melee can output around 2.500-3.000 dmg per minute on a charriot, you need around 6 melee to do this, then the related support to keep them alive from the non stop AoE spam.

How many people do you do salvage bosses with? o.O?

[Veli]

My ls we just let everyone melee and LBC is dead in 3-4 minutes.

I'm curious... to kill a charriot in 3 minutes you need to deal a bit more than 16.000 dmg per minute. Let's say a melee can output around 2.500-3.000 dmg per minute on a charriot, you need around 6 melee to do this, then the related support to keep them alive from the non stop AoE spam.

How many people do you do salvage bosses with? o.O?

We only do that when we get revitalizer..3 MNK Hundred first 3 times maybe four if we get more revitalizers.. 2 Sams or War 2 hr BLM nuke that thing is pretty much dead.

[Meat]

My ls we just let everyone melee and LBC is dead in 3-4 minutes.

I'm curious... to kill a charriot in 3 minutes you need to deal a bit more than 16.000 dmg per minute. Let's say a melee can output around 2.500-3.000 dmg per minute on a charriot, you need around 6 melee to do this, then the related support to keep them alive from the non stop AoE spam.

How many people do you do salvage bosses with? o.O?

Multiple s.v songs with gaxe wars perhaps

[Veli]

My ls we just let everyone melee and LBC is dead in 3-4 minutes.

I'm curious... to kill a charriot in 3 minutes you need to deal a bit more than 16.000 dmg per minute. Let's say a melee can output around 2.500-3.000 dmg per minute on a charriot, you need around 6 melee to do this, then the related support to keep them alive from the non stop AoE spam.

How many people do you do salvage bosses with? o.O?

Multiple s.v songs with gaxe wars perhaps

revit + cor = impossible to gauge