Blue Mage in Salvage?

[Caiti]

I have been playing blue mage in salvage for a while now, and I don't feel like I contribute nearly as much as I could be. This is my first 75 job, I rarely get cells, I don't have any super-useful gear. I just don't know what to do to really help contribute with my group and noone I have talked to seems to know that aspect of salvage. I just feel like a tag-a-long, and I would really like to change that. Any suggestions would be appreciated

[Suiram]

Stun Frog Chorus, stun Restoral, land roar if a THF misses or no proc acid bolt after a couple shots, when there's a lot of mobs that take a while to kill and mages are building hate sleeping them, roar or flash them then exuviation to overtake their hate so they go after you instead of them when they wake up. On bosses set Healing Breeze and Diamondhide, you can stand in range to land it on tanks while being outside chariot AoE range. On stuff you are worried about giving TP to you can still stick dissev poison by casting w/ staff. It'll land frequently enough but rarely more than 1-2 hits. I'm probably forgetting a lot of stuff but I also pull a lot in Salvage so I don't get to spend as much time doing BLU things as other people.

I wouldn't get cells for BLU stuff over your tanks but after that you should be getting them as quickly as anyone else. A lot of people have an anti-BLU bias, but we can make good use of almost any cell, and it's not like certain jobs where you need cells to function properly, moreso that it's such a versatile job, but in Salvage it's only as versatile as you are unlocked.

[Kkel]

Blue Mage, though powerful, is very expensive cell-wise to bring up to speed in Salvage. I'm not going to claim to be an expert on this because i'm rarely in Salvage on BLU for that very reason.

Compared to my other jobs:

• BLU has no multi-hit weapon to start with. So Weapon cells are typically best left to those who do.
  Without a weapon, even if you had Magic unlocked, you wouldn't be able to stick 99% of your Physical magic because BLU has 0 H2H skill...
  ... but BLU has much lower MP than other jobs capable of healing, so Magic cells are best left to other jobs.
  If you were going to focus on BLU Magical Spell damage you'd tear through your limited MP pretty quickly without Max MP and all your Breath Attacks would be garbage without Max HP.
  Base Stats have a significant impact on BLU spells, so even with Magic and Weapons unlocked, you're still hindered badly by Debilitation.
  Chain/Burst Affinity, Convergence, Diffusion, while important to BLU, pale in comparison to a lot of other jobs abilities so you'll be under the effects of Impairment for a while.

For a low man run where you knew cells would be plentiful and you'd be unlocked quickly, BLU can be very powerful. The full BLU package, Weapons, Armor, Spells, Stats, Abilites, is a beast but is pretty pale compared to other jobs when left with bits and pieces.

About the only really good things BLU has going for it is that it can equip all kinds of Traits before entering and maintain those Traits even under Pathos and that it's not heavily Subjob dependent to perform it's main tasks.

[Judai]

aww <3 Caiti! You usually seem to do well, Roars and stuns and spells when you can and your CBs def own the Bosses. Part of the problem is we always seem to have extra melee when you come and for some reason you get put in second party.

@above; Since when can you land Disseverment with a Staff and no Staff skill?

[Suiram]

@above; Since when can you land Disseverment with a Staff and no Staff skill?

That's the whole idea. If you cast with sword you'd be feeding the mob 40~50% TP. But due to the fact that there's a lower bound on hit rate, and it's a 5 hit spell, you have a good enough probability of landing at least one of the 5 hits with minimal accuracy, so you give, for instance, a zone boss an 18/tic poison while only giving it 10% or occasionally 20% TP.

At Khel, what I was trying to say before is that it's not all that expensive cell-wise, if you look at it in perspective. Some jobs (for instance, SMN or PUP) needs quite a few cells to do very few things. A fully unlocked BLU is no MNK or Ridill WAR, same as Salvage as with a merit PT, but they perform their DD function well enough with a weapon, STR, DEX, JA same as any other second-tier melee job, and moreso once magic is unlocked. If you're going to be going for the boss then you will want MP and MND if you can get them (and you'll likely get MND after RDM/WHM and MP after RDM/WHM/BLM/SMN/SCH anyway). I do think you overstate the significance of MP cell though. BLU never rest MP as it is, but spell cost is very efficient, so you're relying on refresh trait, sanction, and refresh, and eventually body/ring if you have the armor and the cell unlocked. If you're stunning TP moves as with Frog Chorus you'll want as much haste gear unlocked as you can (again after tanks).

The whole point though is that not all of the above needs to occur for a BLU to be considered useful in salvage, it's more that the whole range of things that makes BLU useful become available in parts as you unlock various cells, and not all at once as with other mages.

[Judai]

I guess the only times I use Staff are on HNMs and if I forget to switch to sword and hit Diss it just has no effect, I assumed you couldn't land any hits without any Skill from Staff. I understood the concept, just figured it would say "No Effect" with no staff skill but I guess I'm wrong.

[Suiram]

I'd say it lands around half the time? But once it's on it sticks for an awfully long time, about the same duration as Roar. For bosses that's mostly what I do, move in between WSs, stick roar, stick dissev poison, move out and focus on healing until they wear.

[Kkel]

I don't think i've ever seen a PUP or SMN in Salvage, ever.

Like i said, compared to my other jobs. Soboro SAM or Ridill WAR / DRK will punch a hole through pretty much any low floor mobs and only get a whole stronger as more is unlocked. Jobs like SAM can completely ignore things like Omerta, which, in my opinion, make them a much better choice than BLU in the majority of Salvage situations.

[Rocl]

I don't think i've ever seen a PUP or SMN in Salvage, ever.

Like i said, compared to my other jobs. Soboro SAM or Ridill WAR / DRK will punch a hole through pretty much any low floor mobs and only get a whole stronger as more is unlocked. Jobs like SAM can completely ignore things like Omerta, which, in my opinion, leave them a much better choice than BLU is the majority of Salvage situations.

Bringing a Blue Mage to Salvage for strictly DD is what I'd call fairly silly. Every time I go to Salvage as Blue Mage, it's usually for some stunning purpose, and I end up doing more healing/debuffs on bosses than any sort of actual damage spells.

Of course a Samurai can completely ignore Omerta, but they also can't do what a Blue Mage can in Salvage. (Stun, Heal, etc)

However my experience in Salvage on Blue Mage is limited to the "guaranteed cells" zones of Bhaflau and Zhayolm.

[Suiram]

I'm not saying you should go BLU instead of those jobs. Just that for this person whose only job is BLU they can still be useful (in a real and not artificial way), and also that I feel you under-assessed BLU utility in Salvage with statements like "is very expensive cell-wise to bring up to speed," and "About the only really good things [...] is that it can equip all kinds of Traits." Then again, I don't know what you consider "low man" (I think to most people salvage low man is 1-4 people) but we never go with more than 7 so maybe I am speaking from the perspective of someone who gets cells faster than you might in your group?

[Lordwafik]

BLU can fit in easily as DD#3, in all zones.

My main group now is my AU group, and we go like this :

MNK MNK SAM , RDM WHM BRD , THF. I am the thief, and usually gear everyone else first as much as possible and make sure I am last for all melee cells (incus opacus etc). Instead of the SAM , you could slide in a BLU.

BLU is fine, can do decent things for low MP, but can't once the unlocks happen for the other DDs, the blus start dwindling down in damage wise but start rising way up for support.

[Geli]

Cannonball is good on bosses, on SSR for example it's 600+ dmg with CA and around 400 dmg w/o, not even using def food and with /whm sub (while not worring that you'll be in range of any AoE).
If you don't have STR VIT unlocked for Physycal spells but have unlocked INT can try Firespit for 500-700 dmg (if you have good nuking equip).
And if you're on healing duty I can't see how MP can be a problem with auto-refresh from job trait, sanction and morrigan's (or vermy if you don't have it)... Magic Fruit / Healing Breeze have just godly mp to hp healed rate (need MND unlocked though). Just don't bother with Diamondhide at all it's the thing that really eats your mp.

[Suiram]

I agree if fight goes unexpectedly and you start to have MP issues, diamondhide should be the first thing to cut out, but usually things are fine enough to where it doesn't hurt. Also you forgot balrahn's ring, so typically healing on bosses (where you'd be catching ballads) you are getting 10 mp/tic (12 w/ fife, 14 w/ gjaller).

One thing I want to try when my SCH is 37 is going BLU/SCH to Arrapago (where you wouldn't make enough use of another subjob for it to hurt on earlier floors) to see how the C (B?) level healing skill from light arts affects magic fruit cure (not to mention another person on paralyna, although I can already do that on /WHM, but I usually don't).

[Caiti]

Thank you for the input, I really appreciate it. I'm usually the 4th melee, (our setup usually includes mnk mnk nin rdm rdm brd thf blu), and for the most part (like Judai said) I'm in the second party with the thief. Cell-wise I normally get mp/max mp weapons body abilities, an pending on drops etc str max hp support job etc. I generally have trouble getting my stuns to land, roars seem to do okay, and cannonball/CA seems to do "ok" dmg-wise. I have trouble getting my stuns to land on Frog Chorus and Restoral.

[Geli]

I've got your problem - BLU really can't do much when you don't have extra refresh and have no use for Magic Fruit / Healing Breeze.
You really should make PT setups with BLU in tank PT for boss at least, like MNK MNK RDM BRD BLU NIN, 2nd RDM can Cure / Haste outside of pt.

[Harryhood]

BLU is nasty for salvage. I can't add alot of technical advice as to why, but I know when sui graces our little salvage static with his presence it makes it alot more easier for me as a mnk tank. BLU is really well rounded as support or DD, and can flex to the situation. Head butt spam ftw.

[Suiram]

Thank you for the input, I really appreciate it. I'm usually the 4th melee, (our setup usually includes mnk mnk nin rdm rdm brd thf blu), and for the most part (like Judai said) I'm in the second party with the thief. Cell-wise I normally get mp/max mp weapons body abilities, an pending on drops etc str max hp support job etc. I generally have trouble getting my stuns to land, roars seem to do okay, and cannonball/CA seems to do "ok" dmg-wise. I have trouble getting my stuns to land on Frog Chorus and Restoral.

Frog Chorus is odd in that sometimes it has a short windup timer and sometimes it has a really long windup timer. I used to think it was just me lagging some days, but I don't anymore, since when we do WS stun order other people have noticed it as well, and madames have some weird stuff going on that isn't exactly nailed down like when they take double damage from melee, etc. However, as long you don't miss and you didn't enter on lightningsday, it almost always procs as though it was a regular mob outside. Also if you are the only one stunning Chorus you pretty much need all your haste gear unlocked so the recast is up again by the time your last stun wears in case you get back-to-back attempts, which isn't the case for the earlier frogs and you might not have all the haste pieces available to BLU. For these reasons, anymore we tend to do a WS stun order but when I'm not up on flat blade I'll watch on head butt to stun on top of Shoulder Tackle in case they lag or something, and to stun spells after providence, or just use it when the timer comes up to slow them down.

Gears on the other hand are strange. The timer is slow enough to where you should be able to cast before the move goes off, but some zones like Bhaf it's the same in that it will almost always proc if you don't miss, but other zones like silver seas you get a lot of no-proc. It feels like INT cell helps this a little bit, but at the same time you shouldn't be lotting INT before tanks, or before BRD if you're going for boss (or before BLM if you bring one). Another thing to remember since you go with more than one party is that the standard stunning chat filter setup (special actions started on/by you/party/allies/foes Off) won't catch a mob's self-targetted spells and WSs like Restoral unless they are "red named" (your PT in the alliance was the last to act on it before they readied it), so I turn off others/NPCs as well, although I'm not certain if both are needed or just one of those.

[Caiti]

thanks for all of your advice just finished another ss run, we only went with six members this time and things seemed to go a lot smoother. i was able to unlock a lot more than normal and things just seemed to go better.

[Psion]

I go blu for salvage all the time in our low man group, and I know i might not be the best of DD compared to our sams and monks... but thats ok, because most of the time im going /whm or /sch and healing lol. I keep offering to bring my pup but our leader wants my disseverment and support spells hehe. Scholar sub rocks for blu in salvage though, even with mnd/vit down and most gear locked, my fruits were curing for over 400 hp, and with full gear and mnd/vit unlocked it breaks 500.

I did do LAC once as blu but we were only 6 and didnt have much time remaining, only 15 minutes. Sadly, i was /nin so cannonball wasn't the greatest, but it still did a solid 400-600 or so. We were doing pretty good considering the little amount of people we had, and got it down to about 70% with no issues and a pld tank. I'm sure we could've won given enough time, but we bit off more than we could chew that run and tried to do too many things in one go. Disseverment poison was chewing LAC up though.

[Genosync]

.... afk lol'ing at someone saying that a WS has a random windup timer.

I'm sorry, but that's the most ridiculous shit I've heard in a long time.


Anyway, BLU is epic for Salvage. Good early floor damage, fast burst damage when necessary, ability to stun a ridiculous amount in a short period of time, support, curing, and backup tanking.

Just don't gimp yourself the normal two monk base setup.