SAM 6-hit

[Wakabo]

I checked the search function and I keep getting odd results about random store TP stuff.

I know you need +46 STP for a 6 hit on a 450 delay, so what gear slots could I switch out for weapon skills and which do I need to keep in.

Gear I would have at 75 would be

Onimaru/ Pole grip / / smartbomb
turban/ chiv chain/ merman's/ fowling
hauby/ h.kote/ woods/ woods
amem+1/ potent/ shinimusha/ h. sune-ate

That gives me 20 STP so would I need one merit to get 21?

I don't have sea yet, but close so I will be able to get my brutal earring soon with my rajas.

If I added something wrong let me know.

[Thorny]

+46 stp * 6 hits = 276 total stp
if you're switching out 10 on ws, you need an additional 2 on each of the other hits to make it up, simple enough.. once you get merits it becomes pretty irrelevant since they apply to everything:
+35 from stp trait + 5/5 merits * 6 = 210
need 66 more, or 14 off of gear to WS in no stp gear
hachiman kote + brutal + rajas = 14, though if you get brutal/rajas you'll likely WS in them anyway so it becomes entirely moot

[Wakabo]

Exactly what I was looking for, thank you.

[FailureMidgard]

+46 stp * 6 hits = 276 total stp
if you're switching out 10 on ws, you need an additional 2 on each of the other hits to make it up, simple enough.. once you get merits it becomes pretty irrelevant since they apply to everything:
+35 from stp trait + 5/5 merits * 6 = 210
need 66 more, or 14 off of gear to WS in no stp gear
hachiman kote + brutal + rajas = 14, though if you get brutal/rajas you'll likely WS in them anyway so it becomes entirely moot

That's a very clumsy way to do it, and for an up-and-coming sam will probably make them overequip STP on WSes.

45 while TPing means you need 48 on your WS.
46 while TPing means you need 44+ on your WS.
47 while TPing means you only need 35+ on your WS.

edit to better answer OP:
With 1 merit, you'll be at 47 while TPing. 35 on WS means 8 on gear (with 1 merit). You can definitely swap something off...what to swap off depends on what else you have (shura legs vs alkys/etc). If you have no good WS gloves...keep Kote on, switch legs/feet...if you have alky's, it may be better to keep both legs and feet on for your WS.

[Wakabo]

I have the bracelet less than alky with +9 str. Legs I use AF pants for the +3str and Creek M clomps with +4 str.Pretty much untill I get a solid 6 hit, don't swap out legs and feet?

[FailureMidgard]

I have the bracelet less than alky with +9 str. Legs I use AF pants for the +3str and Creek M clomps with +4 str.Pretty much untill I get a solid 6 hit, don't swap out legs and feet?

Actually, can you swing a Hachiman Domaru? It's 2nd best for WS to Osode really, and has stp covered for you as well (and even if you have an osode, in your situation, you can make up more than 2 str in other slots).

If so, you could use that + Hachi Feet to keep your build.

[Marokko]

Finish sea to get brutal and rajas and cap your sTP merits. You only need 11 in gear when you have capped merits and rajas+brutal covers 6 of it, then you can use hachiman-feet for ws and hachiman-hands for tp.

And i guess if you don't have shura you could possibly get Enkidu, 5 stp and it beats out af.

[FailureMidgard]

Finish sea to get brutal and rajas and cap your sTP merits. You only need 11 in gear when you have capped merits and rajas+brutal covers 6 of it, then you can use hachiman-feet for ws and hachiman-hands for tp.

And i guess if you don't have shura you could possibly get Enkidu, 5 stp and it beats out af.

Hachiman feet for WS aren't very good.

Non-Taru with an Osode are the only ones that should be using it. If no Osode, should definitely be using Hachiman Domaru for WS.

[TacoTaru]

My fiancee is finally working her 6 hit setup so I was wondering what she would need to do in order to achieve it, 5 merits parenthesis are ws/other available gear.

Hagun| Pole Grip| - | Tiphia Sting
Turban(Wyvern)| Chiv Chain (Sea gorget)| Triumph | Brutal
Haub(Askar, Osode)| Dusk(Alky) | TOAU(Flame) | Rajas
Foragers | Swift(Warwolf) | Askar(AF+1) | Dusk(Rutters)

Byakko absolutely will not put out, so that's the reasoning on Askar legs. Should she full time Askar? I wouldn't think it'd be worth dropping Alkys for Hachiman, but I really can't spy what else she would use besides Askar over Haub and Osode.

[Thorny]

tp:
hagun|pole grip|tiphia
turban|chiv chain|brutal-brutal is always left ear, gtfo with the triumph|minuet/merman's/bushi/hollow/ethereal/something that gives some benefit for tp
haub|dusk|rajas-always left ring|ulthalam's
foragers-swift-shinimusha haidate-fuma(dusk if you can't afford them for some reason)

ws:
wyvern|chiv chain|brutal-brutal is always left ear|triumph
osode|alky's|rajas-always left ring|flame
foragers-warwolf-AF+1-rutters

maintains 6hit while losing no haste and keeping optimal tp gear.. can eventually replace chiv chain with PCC for tp and WS in a spike necklace without losing 6hit

Once she gets byakko's, tp in them instead of shinimusha haidate and replace fuma with hachiman sune-ate(alternatively, tp in askar body and keep all the haste pieces.. but if acc isn't capped with askar you're getting better results out of the hachiman feet). Eventual goal should be to get usukane feet and use those for the remaining STP, allowing her to tp in:

hagun|pole grip|tiphia
turban|chiv chain|brutal|minuet/merman's/bushi/hollow/ethereal/something that gives some benefit for tp
haub|dusk|rajas-always left ring|ulthalam's
foragers-swift-byakko's haidate-usukane

and maintain 6hit with 19% haste and a good deal of accuracy gear

[FailureMidgard]

My fiancee is finally working her 6 hit setup so I was wondering what she would need to do in order to achieve it, 5 merits parenthesis are ws/other available gear.

Hagun| Pole Grip| - | Tiphia Sting
Turban(Wyvern)| Chiv Chain (Sea gorget)| Triumph | Brutal
Haub(Askar, Osode)| Dusk(Alky) | TOAU(Flame) | Rajas
Foragers | Swift(Warwolf) | Askar(AF+1) | Dusk(Rutters)

Byakko absolutely will not put out, so that's the reasoning on Askar legs. Should she full time Askar? I wouldn't think it'd be worth dropping Alkys for Hachiman, but I really can't spy what else she would use besides Askar over Haub and Osode.

42 in TP right now
45 in WS

All she'd need is 46 in TP to solve that...so Hachi hands or Feet or Shini legs while TPing (Feet are probably better with current setup...). Her WS gear is fine, so long as she keeps the AF+1 on legs for 4 STP.

[Thorny]

42 in TP right now
45 in WS

All she'd need is 46 in TP to solve that...so Hachi hands or Feet or Shini legs while TPing (Feet are probably better with current setup...). Her WS gear is fine, so long as she keeps the AF+1 on legs for 4 STP.

Better off with shini legs, she has no catpants so she loses less from using those than hachi feet or hands.

[FailureMidgard]

Better off with shini legs, she has no catpants so she loses less from using those than hachi feet or hands.

Not sure on that...8 accuracy + vs 2% haste? (I say +, because I feel that the str/attack will end up slightly favorable to a hachi piece)

Based on her gear, there is no way she is accuracy capped.

Usu head vs Turban is 7 accuracy 3 str vs 2% haste, and when Amele and I argued this, we basically agreed you needed in the range of 50% haste for Turban to win (which is definitely possible...but no Byakko's hurts that a lot). She will likely do better from the added accuracy than haste, unless she has double marches, haste, and is fulltiming Hasso.

[Thorny]

Not sure on that...8 accuracy + vs 2% haste? (I say +, because I feel that the str/attack will end up slightly favorable to a hachi piece)

Based on her gear, there is no way she is accuracy capped.

Usu head vs Turban is 7 accuracy 3 str vs 2% haste, and when Amele and I argued this, we basically agreed you needed in the range of 50% haste for Turban to win (which is definitely possible...but no Byakko's hurts that a lot). She will likely do better from the added accuracy than haste, unless she has double marches, haste, and is fulltiming Hasso.

it's 3% haste, no fucking excuse to tp in dusk feet on sam.. if for some reason fuma didn't exist i'd probably agree with you.. regardless it's not a huge difference one way or the other and it's only temporary if she's getting byakko's soon

[FailureMidgard]

it's 3% haste, no fucking excuse to tp in dusk feet on sam

Inventory space, if it's not her main job. Every sam needs Usu feet anyway, would solve so many pointless arguments! ;/

Even at 3% haste, you're still gonna need 45%+ haste for it to beat 8 accuracy, and she is lower accuracy than the values we were assuming in our previous argument, iirc (meaning relative to other stats, the accuracy is worth more).

[TacoTaru]

She does have Ethereral for TP, I just forgot to about it. As far as Fuma over Dusk, I had always heard Dusk better than Fumas for NIN/SAM, is this not the case? It's not like Fumas cost anything, but I had always thought Dusk to be the better of the two.

Thanks for the responses.

*Edit* Yes kittypants are in our near future if he would ever put them out and she's at 4/8 GKT merits if that matters in the ACC debate you guys are having.

[Thorny]

If you're using any decent amount of haste and getting buffs, dusk beat fuma. The acc vs haste debate on askar/hachiman vs shinimusha/fuma is largely dependant on target, food, and buffs.. some situations one setup will win while others the other will win. I have to go to class, but I'm sure failure is more than capable of doing the number crunching if you give a theoretical situation

[FailureMidgard]

She does have Ethereral for TP, I just forgot to about it. As far as Fuma over Dusk, I had always heard Dusk better than Fumas for NIN/SAM, is this not the case? It's not like Fumas cost anything, but I had always thought Dusk to be the better of the two.

Thanks for the responses.

*Edit* Yes kittypants are in our near future if he would ever put them out and she's at 4/8 GKT merits if that matters in the ACC debate you guys are having.

Makes it lean more towards me ;p

We were assuming things like Byakkos, Peacock, 8/8, Haub+1.

I dunno where you got the idea on dusk better...it's only better in that more jobs can use it...1% haste is def better than the 4 attack on dusk. That being said, for someone not a Sam main, that has other jobs like war leveled...I don't think it's too big a problem to use Dusk feet. I used Fumas until I got Usu, but Sam is basically my main, so that's a different case.

I still think for now, you're better off with Hachi feet and keeping Askar legs...if she ends up with more accuracy (Peacock, Aces, full merits, higher acc ring, Bushi, etc), then I'd lean towards what Thorny is saying more.
Once Byakko drops, I'd go with Fuma+Hachi hands (I personally prefer to not run slow...)

[Wolfknight]

I still think for now, you're better off with Hachi feet and keeping Askar legs...if she ends up with more accuracy (Peacock, Aces, full merits, higher acc ring, Bushi, etc), then I'd lean towards what Thorny is saying more.
Once Byakko drops, I'd go with Fuma+Hachi hands (I personally prefer to not run slow...)

I agree, should do this for best results on most stuff.

[TacoTaru]

I'll definitely let her know about the Fuma's although she's likely to steal my gil since I'm the one that convinced her to sell them (Fail). SAM isn't her main, moreso NIN and DNC, but I'm going to assume Fuma is better for NIN too, so I'll make her pick them up.

Ace's she's likely never to get as she's content with just grouping up and doing things with a few other friends we play with and has no interest in anything beyond that; however, Askar Zuchetto is hers if the SOB will ever drop as well. I think we're like 1/20 on any heads at all.

Peacock Charm should be gotten by the end of teh week assuming we have our normal luck with drops this week. When she gets this will she still need to drop the Sea Gorget for Chiv Chain during WS or should she get Hachiman feet to swap in? Following that, her Haub+1 should be rolling in as well.

Salavge she despises but with the groups we've been in, it's not hard to imagine why.

Thanks again :D

Oh and I believe I read Dusk being better thing on BG about the Attack outweighing the 1% Haste. Granted this was ages ago, and for the life of me I don't remember who said it, but I'm also an idiot so that's a decent factor as well.