Pushing mobs around

[Amok]

I know this is a strange and potentially uninteresting topic... but that won't stop me posting it.

A while ago I was musing on Diabolos and Nightmare range. Thinking how you could put enough distance between the mages and Diabolos if you stood diagonally but were able to push Diabolos further into the corner. So I started thinking of ways you could do that. (btw this has nothing to do with Diabolos, it's just where ther thought process started)

Mobs seem to reposition themselves if there are other mobs nearby (darters + fafnir) and also avatars (pls correct me if I'm wrong). I wanted to see if a player character could do the same. I found out you can to a certain extent PUSH a mob that you're fighting by walking towards them in locked-on-target mode. I'm not sure if this is terrain related but I managed to do it on bunnies and not too long ago on a sahagin while goofing around. So far I think this is limited to smaller/shorter mobs since Colibri didn't seem to want to budge.

Anyway, that's it... I don't have any fancy application for this new found knowledge, but I thought maybe if I started the topic someone else could. It'd have to be a situation where you'd want to get a mob somewhere into a corner where you couldn't normally pull him by running out of range.

I already tried landing Sneak Attack to no avail cus when you push them it looks like they turn around. I doubt mobs actually turn around (according to the game's logic) to walk away, and it just looks that way because the server is sending you their new position which happens to be behind them.

[orson]

It's tough to predict where a mob is going to move to. As for Diabolos isn't it more to do with the floor falling out that you can't safely position out side of range?

[The Stig]

Mob movement is retarded sometimes with terrain. I took a step back once while fighting a goblin and it went a long way around to get to me again (there was a tiny little step which didn't stop me moving to it). At other times they just warp hack on top of you.

The way you described it is because mobs (unlike pet vs pet) will try to position themselves to face you. Mobs don't attack "on top of you", they will try to reposition themselves to face you. Due to client/server delay, you probably walked too close to them or made them turn, so they'll probably move/turn to face you, essentially "pushing" it but not truely as you're the one who moved first. But if you play BST before, mobs do not do this to other mobs and at times you can have a pet + mob merged together in one silly cluster fuck while they try to turn and face each other (but still attacking).

[Amok]

The pathing is related, but it's a different issue imo. It's not as simple as the mob having to face you because most other mobs will just turn once you move past its center but won't move before. You could stand inside them and get "Unable to see" message while still being hit. So they'll be considered 'facing you' even though you're 'too close'. The bunnies and sahagin were exceptional in that aspect. Instead of just letting me walk up to and/or through them they had a preferred distance or something of that sort that made them say 'hey, this dude is too close, let me back up a bit'.

EDIT:
I think there's a good chance this is terrain dependant.

[ninjafox]

Mobs will not reposition themselves if they're on top of you and they will still hit you.

[ByeByeTasai]

I believe it's one engaged mob might move if another engaged mob shares the same space. That's why Fafnir doesn't move unless someone physically pulls the darters over him, and even then its hit or miss.

And what zone were you in when you were "causing bunnies to move" because they dont sit still more then a few seconds in several different zones, I remember that from soloing on thf at low to mid levels.

[Puba]

I understand what you are talking about. I have to agree with there is no real pattern in the way they will move, but I do it all the time exping on stuff of all sorts.

[frodnonnag]

as long as i have played smn, avatars have had no effect on the placement of mobs, as long as the avatar isn't the one that has the mob's attention.

[Jordache]

as long as i have played smn, avatars have had no effect on the placement of mobs, as long as the avatar isn't the one that has the mob's attention.

When the summon spawns inside of the mob the mob will move. My NPC often repositions when I summon after engaging, but the NPC may be entirely separate funtionally speaking

[Pergo]

i think it might work with diabolos, i know mobs that fly/hover have strange behaviors when it comes to moving with PCs. For instance, if you put a Colibri, Puk, or Bird of autofollow, you'll sorta push them a bit, it's kinda really annoying, but I've not really seen it work on mobs that don't "hover". Diabolos does, so this might apply to him too.

[Thorny]

Don't know anything about pushing diabolos around, but you can be out of nightmare range without standing on the unsafe tiles anyway.. you're just also out of casting range. Easy to duo real diabolos with nin/dnc and RDM as long as the RDM stands out of nightmare range.. 3-5 can be soloed by NIN/THF or NIN/RDM with meds, but a mage standing out of nightmare range makes it a joke to duo.

[The Stig]

I tested last night, engaged, locked on, meleed and walked towards mob.

Didn't move the mob, and I walked into a "brick wall" very quick.

[Kaeko]

Mobs can occupy the same space and do not really 'push' each other around (ex. train about 50 mobs and stop - they will all attack you and layer on top of each other). What is interesting is if you then sleepga all the mobs. They will tend to disperse. However they programmed this, mobs can layer on each other, but not nearly as well when slept or stopped.

This is an exploit you can use on Fafhogg, and probably have seen on Fafhogg if you camp it a lot. Some random LS gets Darters and tries to sleep them all. If they just happened to get slept on Fafnir, it will dance. You can do this on purpose by gathering the darters, training them directly on top of Fafnir (which does nothing), then sleepga the Darters. Sleeping them will disperse all mobs in that small area all the Darters are on, including Fafnir. You can use this to increase Flail chances as Fafnir will dance. Bringing the Demonic Rose from the Excal ??? near entrance should increase the likelihood of Fafnir moving as it is a very large, bulky mob.

This is a really strong steal/MPK tool since it is based on mob positioning AI and not some form of hate stealing. You cannot /blockaid to defend against this, which makes it a good grief tactic. It's not something that's really fixable I think, since it seems so fundamental to the game (like terrain exploits). Can't really think of a good reason to use this other than griefing, but you never know when useless knowledge becomes useful. If you were able to somehow force the mob to where you want, I can see it being useful, but since the dispersion seems random, it's only useful in changing the mob's position, not forcing it to a certain spot.

I never used this on Fafnir, but did test it on a lot of mobs - it's a very fundamental flawed response for larger mobs in the game. You can see this in effect on Vrtra when it summons, especially if you choose to straight tank fight it - it will move slightly to the right in a circular fashion every time it summons. If you are too slow, it will eventually hit a wall and turn entirely. You have to reposition every so often or face Flail if you do this.

Also, this may sound ironic considering the point of the post, but don't exploit the game or grief ppl or you'll end up like me =D

[Fogo]

Just want to mention that I'd agree with the hovering mob thing, you see this kind of thing a LOT in meripos with those tards that love to get right up close and in the mobs face at imp and g. colibri camps and even puks in mjsp, as soon as they do the thing turns and moves, and the dude gets close again, the mob moves again, over and over (really pisses me off because inevitably the mob is 'unable to see' after a few seconds). I always chalked it up to certain mobs have a specific amount of space they need to function, and when that space gets invaded their AI forces them to move.

Now that I look back to all my bst leveling days, it seems like it was JUST these hovering types that did this, can't say that I ever saw any other type do this.