Bard makeover due?

[Yvonne]

I don't feel alone when I say this, but SE needs to overhaul this job to make it more interesting than it is.

When you break down the job, it's one of the most important jobs in the game, yet it's as exciting as watching C-Span on your day off. Here you have a job class with easily some of the most important spells for endgame, merit parties, etc, yet there isn't any satisfaction at all playing it. Paying $15 a month so we can tap 2-3 of the same macros every 2 minutes? Where's the fun in that compared to other jobs in the game?

Jobs like COR and SCH pops into my mind. Unlike a BRD, a person playing COR can switch accordingly from a moment of buffs to being a full DD in the party. A person playing SCH, can pretty much do whatever they want. They have a wide variety of options and can switch on the fly from a simple party buffer, to a full fledge nuker or healer in the party. Sure SCH isn't exactly in the same leagues remotely close to COR or BRD in terms of party buffs and is dependent on its sub job, but they have the versatility to switch at any given time.

To further compare BRD to COR and is its gameplay mechanics. For a person playing BRD, all they really need is to tap a macro and gain a party buff. Strength of the songs are either based on a combination of Skill/CHR/Level or predetermined by a set formula. Hell, or you could just get a full AH BRD and still get by with it. For CORs, it's somewhat similar to BRDs, but there's a random chance that the buff will be either strong or weaker than it's suppose to be. That's a nice way of implementing some character/flavor in the gameplay mechanics itself. BRD? It’s just a job that takes up nearly a dozen inventory slots on instruments alone. There's nothing remotely interesting for the person playing it.

Other things that I have noticed about the job are that it doesn't take an actual person playing the job. BRD is one of the easiest jobs to dual box in endgame. That should indicate just how poorly the job was designed. Dual box a BRD for Salvage anyone? Sure one could argue the job does a decent job at back up healing and I'm sure people get off on being just a back up healer, but really? That's a poor excuse covering up fundamental design for the job. You could have a fully naked BRD with a single instrument, fully merited Troub/Night, BLM sub, and park it at Khimara. It will function just as well as a non-relic BRD dual boxed. It'll miss that extra % of haste from Marches, but it'll still do the job.

Then there's the unbalanced selection of songs for it. What is the point of Goblin Gavotte or Gold Capriccio when it only gives less than a few percentages worth of proc'n? These songs are next to useless. Maiden's Virelai? It's like one of the DEVs came up with this song at the last minute and never looked back. Requiem? That song doesn't even land like 90% of the ToA mobs and even in WotG. What went wrong here? Elegy on the other hand… incredible. It’s the only reason people can have holding parties out by Khim/Cerb camps and why a COR can never replace a BRD in a tank party (that and 2 macros, or even 1 with some plugins).

Solutions to fix the problem are some basic gameplay mechanics that would tie in the job’s flavor in the game. You have a job class that uses an instrument. Would it be possible for the players to gain higher tiers instead of stacking ridiculous amounts of skill gear if they actually played the instruments? Now I’m not thinking of a Guitar Hero or quick time events (Yahtzee would probably crucify me for saying that) but it needs something to get the player involved in the songs. Along those lines would be a nice step forward than it is now. Sure, lag could be an issue, but hey, BLMs do fine with stunning Cerb. It can’t be hard to make the job more interactive and at the same time, give it the same flavor as COR with their risk/chances on dice rolls. If anything, it’ll make the job more rewarding to actually be able reach higher tier songs. Maybe a longer duration bonus on certain songs, or dare I say it, having Fowl Aubade actually working. Having Elegy’s full slow potency based on the player’s skill and not Elemental Seal, would be refreshing. We don't even have to limit it down to bonuses. Add penalties for either messing with the songs or worst.

This might come across tedious and overwhelming having to tap buttons continuously, but coming from a person that’s played this job class for 5 years, I’ll be happy to see it being revamped than being bored out of my mind every time I’m on it for events. Separating real BRDs from dual boxed BRDs, now that would be something.

[BRP]

Here is an idea: SE should stop making god tier jobs with no rival.

EDIT: Ha-Ha, who am I kidding, SE stopped making good jobs years ago.

[Starr]

You think it's really that much fun on a ton of other jobs? All melee jobs are repetetive too.

[Baha]

It's funny how you're ALWAYS looking to recruit bards as a LS.

1) Look for BRD
2) Find BRD
3) BRD sings songs, gets gear, all is well
4) BRD tires of singing songs, hints at wanting to play his THF, RNG or whatnot more
5) You humor the BRD occasionally, getting others to fill in. BRD is overjoyed.
6) It's a chore to get the BRD to come as BRD, sometimes showing up as other job despite being asked to come sing. Suggestions are made to look for a new BRD.
7) Go to 1

I always suggested to anyone asking "what job should I level?" to level BRD. It's a godsend to be able to rotate jobs, because maining BRD is something very, very few people will want to do. Nothing enjoyable about BRD/BLM'ing at ToAU stuff or minuet/ballading for a whole city dyna run. It's not that you need to pay attention either, you don't usually get to contribute much with backuphealing and sleeping, it's great if you do, but it's a luxury. But yeah, you can't really go without the buffs, so it needs to be done. If you rotate it around so that most of your DD's can also play BRD at least the suffering's fairly split. ;p

[Furionstormrage]

You think it's really that much fun on a ton of other jobs? All melee jobs are repetetive too.

This.

Even tanking most mobs is really boring.

[ronin sparthos]

Bard is yet another case of:

The devs didnt think this through.

Elegy is made of all sorts of broken and only recently has SE started to make Elegy-resistant/immune HNMs. While its understandable that Bard needed potent songs to justify a party slot, its obvious SE didn't think through its potency and ease to land.

Elegy and Utsusemi are just relics of an era where SE really didnt think anything through.

All Bard honestly needs is a 3rd song slot for all the bar-status songs, the job doesnt need much more. If you want to play a more DD oriented buffer, Corsair now fills that role perfectly.

[BRP]

But PvP is a failure and doing boring shit is awesome!

EDIT: Haste gear(in whatever form), multi-hit weapons, large amounts of Fast Cast gear, and basically anything that breaks the economy of actions would fit under that too ronin.

EDIT: SE never learns from their mistakes. They've been making broken games for decades. FFXI is their first only-partially fucked up game.

[Yvonne]

This.

Even tanking most mobs is really boring.

Game mechanic wise, tank jobs have way more interaction than a BRD does. I grew up with fighting games like Street Fighter II, so I always enjoy the thrill of face to face fights. Also, you can dual box a BRD and never notice it. Other LSs wouldn't know, but a dual box a PLD/NIN? It's one of those popcorn moments when it does happen.

All Bard honestly needs is a 3rd song slot for all the bar-status songs, the job doesnt need much more. If you want to play a more DD oriented buffer, Corsair now fills that role perfectly.

But a COR can't replace a BRD's role in a tank party. Maybe some gun ho COR might disagree, but some people rather have the ease of having a BRD in the PT, which I find disappointing. The job needs an overhaul so it requires more interaction from the player for songs than just tapping a macro, which I don't want to offend anyone, even a fucking monkey can do.

Bard songs generally have a long casting time, but what if the DEVs implemented quick time events during that casting window? It could be something as simple as following song notes from Zelda: OoT, Resident Evil 5 and the CS button taps, PaRappa The Rapper, Zell Dincht's combos in FF8, etc. Anything that promotes interaction between the player and the game and not someone half assing it in Salvage and stuff.

[fantasticdan]

I think one of the worst things about playing brd is the ridiculous cast time on buff songs combined with relatively short durations. If they were shortened to something more reasonable, and/or the durations were increased, it would allow brds to spend more time actually playing the game(like healing/pulling/sleeping/etc. or even meleeing), and less time just standing there.

Requiem resist rates/immunity rates should definitely be fixed, and virelai would be pretty interesting if they extended the duration a bit.

[Bardlet]

coming from a person that’s played this job class for 5 years, I’ll be happy to see it being revamped than being bored out of my mind every time I’m on it for events. Separating real BRDs from dual boxed BRDs, now that would be something.

I love you, have my babies.

I loved playing BRD at first, and for a long while. But after a 12-hour marathon of actually being asleep, still hitting macros WHILE SLEEPING, and no one noticing one way or the other that I was no longer a mentally functioning member of the party... yeah. I levelled WHm and THF and revelled at how they were far more exciting with the "Oh no X is happening, I should hit Y now!" (Cures/-na's/erases and SA/TA/WS/(Aura)Steal etc.) instead of Minuet macro, March macro, run my character a few feet, hit Ballad macro twice, target mob, Elegy macro, a Threnody macro if I'm feeling bored, waiting for songs to wear, rinse, repeat.

BRD can be a fun job... but in it's current incarnation... it tends to be boring as snot. As the person who was talking about how dual-box friendly the job is pretty much said, if you have half a brain and can write a macro, you can be a fairly decent BRD. It's actually pretty sad.

(yes yes, I'm a quitter I know... but I still have a soft spot for BRD and FFXI at times )

[Fng]

It's funny how you're ALWAYS looking to recruit bards as a LS.

1) Look for BRD
2) Find BRD
3) BRD sings songs, gets gear, all is well
4) BRD tires of singing songs, hints at wanting to play his THF, RNG or whatnot more
5) You humor the BRD occasionally, getting others to fill in. BRD is overjoyed.
6) It's a chore to get the BRD to come as BRD, sometimes showing up as other job despite being asked to come sing. Suggestions are made to look for a new BRD.
7) Go to 1

I always suggested to anyone asking "what job should I level?" to level BRD. It's a godsend to be able to rotate jobs, because maining BRD is something very, very few people will want to do. Nothing enjoyable about BRD/BLM'ing at ToAU stuff or minuet/ballading for a whole city dyna run. It's not that you need to pay attention either, you don't usually get to contribute much with backuphealing and sleeping, it's great if you do, but it's a luxury. But yeah, you can't really go without the buffs, so it needs to be done. If you rotate it around so that most of your DD's can also play BRD at least the suffering's fairly split. ;p

While this is very true... I have always found it applies to any mage job as well.

[Bardlet]

While this is very true... I have always found it applies to any mage job as well.

Moreso mage jobs that get abused endlessly- RDM, WHM, BRD... less so BLM. Support and healing is tiring and easy to burn out on if it's all you're constantly able to do.

[Yvonne]

BRD can be a fun job... but in it's current incarnation... it tends to be boring as snot. As the person who was talking about how dual-box friendly the job is pretty much said, if you have half a brain and can write a macro, you can be a fairly decent BRD. It's actually pretty sad.

(yes yes, I'm a quitter I know... but I still have a soft spot for BRD and FFXI at times )

Glad to see you back on the boards again and yeah, spot on how I also feel about the job too.

[Antithesis]

Bard is a wannabee mage job that only sings a selection of around five to seven silly songs. The only needed piece of equipment is that stick with holes to add another song to your repitoire. Any other gear they use is useless crap that has no worth and only serves to make them feel like having certain pieces of armor is important, I.E: Look at me, I got a Marduk's Body... It does nothing.

[Baha]

Moreso mage jobs that get abused endlessly- RDM, WHM, BRD... less so BLM. Support and healing is tiring and easy to burn out on if it's all you're constantly able to do.

You do occasionally get people who will fulltime WHM or RDM. Hell, I knew a WHM who levelled RDM when in a rut and a RDM who did the exact opposite. Kinda like the melee player levelling three or four DD jobs.

Main/fulltime RDM's or WHM's might break, but some actually love the healing mindset.
Main/fulltime BRD's WILL break, it's just a question of when.
Main BLM's, there's always some taru's around who always want to blow shit up. You don't need more than a handful of "fulltime" BLM's anyway. ;p

[Francisco]

Not sure what could really be added to BRD... maybe a couple of JAs...

(Giving them generic names, since I don't know enough about medieval song types to make a creative one)...

Hero's Serenade - Enhances the effect of songs on the targeted party member. (Mini, one person, soul voice)

Maybe a Hasso/Seigan type set...

Military Parade - Enhances STR/DEX/Attack/Accuracy/Haste, etc type songs...

Inspiring Concert - Enhances MND/INT/CHR/Ballad/Carol/M.Atk*/M.Acc*, etc type songs...

...and another one for Mambo, Minne, VIT, AGI... etc...

*They could add M.Atk/M.Acc songs as well.... or possibly elemental specific songs - but it might be too redundant with Threnody.

[Spider-Dan]

I think one of the worst things about playing brd is the ridiculous cast time on buff songs combined with relatively short durations. If they were shortened to something more reasonable, and/or the durations were increased, it would allow brds to spend more time actually playing the game(like healing/pulling/sleeping/etc. or even meleeing), and less time just standing there.

Maybe they should make it so that songs are a JA instead of a spell (so they are instant), and double the duration (to around 5 minutes, or so). But to give BRD a little more interaction, maybe they should make it so that when you use your song JA, the song doesn't quite come out right every time, so you have to try again. For balance purposes, you'd have to only get a limited number of tries at getting the song just right.

Of course, with it lasting so long, you couldn't have BRDs just re-singing the same song over the top of itself repeatedly until they got the song perfect. So you'd definitely have to make the recast pretty long... maybe a minute. And you'd probably have to have some way of preventing them from re-singing a song that's already active.

But yeah, if you did all of those things, BRD would be the perfect job.

[el_tio]

How SE should fix Bard:

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/membe...picture230.jpg

[Yvonne]

How SE should fix Bard:

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/membe...picture230.jpg

It's a step in the right direction.

Want the full effects of March? Better pay attention and not skip a beat.

[BRP]

FFXI is going to skip right over WoW and dive right into the casual.