Magic Accuracy effect charm?

[Vryali]

Did a quickie search, but came up with 20 pages, none of which on the first mentioned specifically either BST or charm... soooo D:

I'm 71 BST and have seen the wonders of Apollo's Staff, so I figured that magic acc worked for BST and recently subbed out my 2nd CHR ring for Balrahn's. I just finally played around with Flamingos in sky (72-74) and just using gauge, it didn't appear that the Balrahn was helping any? Already have to make the one Heaven Ring, but I was rather hoping that my Omega Ring would function as ring #2, but I'm not sure this is likely anymore

Unsure if Gauge is just a CHR vs CHR function that doesn't reflect charm or, if magic acc doesn't help, why Apollo's Staff does ?

Thanks D:

[Blasta]

Im not expert in this field, but did a quicky wiki search on Apollo's staff and it says:

* +15% increase to Light Element Magic Spells
* -15% decrease to Dark Element Magic Spells
* Charm success rate +15%
* -3 Avatar Perpetuation Cost for Carbuncle and Light Spirit
* +3 Avatar Perpetuation Cost for Diabolos, Fenrir, and Dark Spirit

As it mentions Charm success rate seperate from +15% increase light spells, i would think that M.acc has no effect on it. Its really not magic anyways...?

Correct if im wrong.

[Argettio]

Apollo's Staff

Hidden Effect
+15% increase to Light Element Magic Spells
-15% decrease to Dark Element Magic Spells
Charm success rate +15%
-3 Avatar Perpetuation Cost for Carbuncle and Light Spirit
+3 Avatar Perpetuation Cost for Diabolos, Fenrir, and Dark Spirit

Apollo's Staff - FFXIclopedia, the Final Fantasy XI wiki - Characters, items, jobs, and more

Beaten by 1 min

[The Stig]

Charm is affected by: EXP to next level, luck, moon phase, reraise, distance between Earth and RL Moon, the console you play on, urgency to actually charm the mob to safe yourself (the more urgent the more likely it'll fail) and when you last touched yourself.



In all seriousness, charm is so random anyway I doubt Magic Accuracy helps at all, or I haven't heard of it helping. Besides, no matter how much CHR you stick on it still seems to fail at weird times.

Otherwise, Gauge's output is affected by CHR yes, and maybe the level between you and the mob.

[Savanah]

No matter how much CHR you stack you still have that 5% chance you'll miss regardless at capped success rate. Or, retarded things like mobs with completely OP Resist Charm traits resisting your level 75 charm while being a lv30 monster.

[Gunitsoldier]

No.

[Midnightjade]

I doubt M.Acc. has any effect on Charm although I don't know for sure. Apollo's, CHR gear and AF(+1) ftw. ^^

By the way, once you hit 72 you'll be having so much fun in Sky you won't even believe it. Best camping ground in the game for BST.

[Vryali]

Alrighty, thanks for the quickie replies, I'll just suck it up and start buying angel stones XD

[Suiram]

I'm not the OP but if I was, or if my BST was ever going higher than Lv1, I wouldn't be satisfied with the responses so far. What someone publishes on a page on Otherwiki has absolutely no authority in answering questions like this. If it turns out to be affected by Macc, then there simply isn't a separate charm bonus on staff and whoever listed it there is wrong.

Looking at Gauge now, it seems like it's a good means to actually verify this? Find a mob, add CHR until the message changes, then swap out a piece of CHR gear for Macc gear and see what the message is. You can do this on a mage/bst it looks like? More available Macc pieces that way.

[Vryali]

I did do the gauge bit, it shows no difference, I just wasn't certain why then the Light Staff would matter. I plan to, given current responses, just test it out on hard to charm mobs like slimes or raptors with a COR friend at some point, unless there's somewhere someone already tested magic acc. out more thoroughly than a wiki post/mention

I wager I can't be the first person to wonder this, though - so I don't plan to spend much time with it x.x/

[Suiram]

You got it up to the point where a change in 1 CHR changed the Gauge message, and then you added Macc with no change? Does Light Staff change the message?

[Midnightjade]

This reminds me of the ongoing puzzle of M.Acc and BRD songs. One of the problems in testing is that not very much gear is available for either job that directly affects M.Acc. I guess you can use mage/bst, although that introduces an assumption that Charm on sub is as efficient as on main (which is probably correct). Probable other reason it's not been tested is that mischarm at 75 is really quite rare, maybe once every few hours.

Eh, I guess it should be done. I predict no detectable effect but would love to be proven wrong.

Also, this testing should also work if done by mage/BST whose BST is level 1. I nominate Suiram to go out and take one for the team, a few hundred data points should do it! :D

[Vryali]

I didn't test with staff, just Balrahns. I should test with the staff though

Lesse... I don't know the levels, since they all charm T and I haven't yet taken the time to see what teh CHR diff is between Ts for level (nor do I even care at this point, halfway to 72 XD) When I did it at 70 I needed +25 CHR to get should iirc...

With Apollos: 

CHR: 69+17 - Might
CHR: 69+23 - Might
CHR: 69+27 - Might
CHR: 69+29 - Should

So that one was too high a level >.> Time to find another <.<

Wearing Balrahn's + Apollo's:
CHR: 69+27 - Should
CHR: 69+25 - Should
CHR: 69+22 - Might
CHR: 69+24 - Should
CHR: 69+23 - Should

So found this one.

Without Balrahn's but with Apollo's:
CHR: 69+23 - Should
CHR: 69+22 - Might

Balrahn's magic acc does nothing :3

Without Balrahn's or Apollo's:
CHR: 69+23 - Should
CHR: 69+22 - Might

Apollo's also does nothing :3

Well, guess that answered whether or not gauge can be counted on, since it doesn't apply.

Oh well XD

[Absolutely Virtue]

Surely we can just ask SE about it. I've found that if you ever need to know something about FFXI, it's best to go right to the source.

TheStig is actually correct. Charm rate is inversely proportionate to how badly you need to charm that particular mob. If your life (or the xp chain) depends on it, it will fail. Every time.

[mcb]

i would assume charm counts and an ability and not magi.

[Spekkio]

so does QD but there's reason to believe it's affected by macc i believe. it's certainly affected by MAB.

[Julian]

I'm not the OP but if I was, or if my BST was ever going higher than Lv1, I wouldn't be satisfied with the responses so far. What someone publishes on a page on Otherwiki has absolutely no authority in answering questions like this. If it turns out to be affected by Macc, then there simply isn't a separate charm bonus on staff and whoever listed it there is wrong.

This. Saying something like "this is true because the wiki says so!" isn't a valid point.

The effects of elemental staves are hidden, the words they used to describe the charm bonus were made up, fabricated, by some person, to reflect what it probably does. Could the charm bonus be due to the magic accuracy bonus of the staff? Maybe..

edit: Also, looking at the wording:

"* +15% increase to Light Element Magic Spells
* -15% decrease to Dark Element Magic Spells
* Charm success rate +15%
* -3 Avatar Perpetuation Cost for Carbuncle and Light Spirit
* +3 Avatar Perpetuation Cost for Diabolos, Fenrir, and Dark Spirit"

Shouldn't it say +15% damage bonus, and +15% accuracy bonus to light elemental spells? "15% increase" could mean anything. Also, isn't +15% increase redundant, as the + already indicates that it's an increase, as does the word increase.

One more thing, why do they list out the avatars? Why not just say "Dark|Light based/element summons"? I don't see them listing every single light and dark spell in the game for the first two bullet points.

tl;dr, I think whoever wrote those descriptions is rather dumb, and not reliable. (edit: one last thing, +15% charm rate? I call bullshit until someone actually tests it, sounds like a made up number.)

[fndragon]

Charm is affected by: EXP to next level, luck, moon phase, reraise, distance between Earth and RL Moon, the console you play on, urgency to actually charm the mob to safe yourself (the more urgent the more likely it'll fail) and when you last touched yourself.

So true. The instant that comes off, I swear SE has a "engageMurphysLaw()" function they call.

[Spekkio]

i did do some very minor experimentation wherein i got right on the cusp of might and should and added my bahlran's ring resulting in no change in gauge performance. i do seem to remember though that by deducting the apollo's staff and replacing it w/ 2 chr (i forget what my exact gearing was, but the only thing that changed was the removal of the staff) it similarly did NOT change my gauge results if i remember correctly. i don't remember for sure though, so go back and check before you take my statement as fact. if that's the case, gauge may not account for all variables involved in the charm process (or bsts for years have been lied to!)

[Byrthnoth]

So we know Gauge doesn't actually tell you how well you can charm things. The reason for that might be that it doesn't account for +Magical Accuracy (like the MAcc given by Light staff.)

Therefore, the only way to actually test this hypothesis is to go out and Charm hundreds of monsters that have a charm resist rate (ideally due to level and not a trait.) For me, just seeing that Light staff increases Charm rate is enough to make me assume Magical Accuracy affects charm, and here's why:
1) There is no gear in the game that specifically increases charm success rate.
2) Light staff is known to give +Magical Accuracy.
3) Currently ffxiclopedia has Light Staff's hidden effects being different from all the other elemental staves by "Charm Success rate +10%"

Principle of parsimony seems to indicate that magical accuracy affects Charm rate.