Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 31
  1. #1
    Human Being
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,169
    BG Level
    7

    Fossil Skeleton Pre-Dates Lucy

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/sc...fossil.html?em

    October 2, 2009
    Fossil Skeleton From Africa Predates Lucy
    By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
    Lucy, meet Ardi.

    Ardi, short for Ardipithecus ramidus, is the newest fossil skeleton out of Africa to take its place in the gallery of human origins. At an age of 4.4 million years, it lived well before and was much more primitive than the famous 3.2-million-year-old Lucy, of the species Australopithecus afarensis.

    Since finding fragments of the older hominid in 1992, an international team of scientists has been searching for more specimens and on Thursday presented a fairly complete skeleton and their first full analysis. By replacing Lucy as the earliest known skeleton from the human branch of the primate family tree, the scientists said, Ardi opened a window to “the early evolutionary steps that our ancestors took after we diverged from our common ancestor with chimpanzees.”

    The older hominid was already so different from chimps that it suggested “no modern ape is a realistic proxy for characterizing early hominid evolution,” they wrote.

    The Ardipithecus specimen, an adult female, probably stood four feet tall and weighed about 120 pounds, almost a foot taller and twice the weight of Lucy. Its brain was no larger than a modern chimp’s. It retained an agility for tree-climbing but already walked upright on two legs, a transforming innovation in hominids, though not as efficiently as Lucy’s kin.

    Ardi’s feet had yet to develop the arch-like structure that came later with Lucy and on to humans. The hands were more like those of extinct apes. And its very long arms and short legs resembled the proportions of extinct apes, or even monkeys.

    Tim D. White of the University of California, Berkeley, a leader of the team, said in an interview this week that the genus Ardipithecus appeared to resolve many uncertainties about “the initial stage of evolutionary adaptation” after the hominid lineage split from that of the chimpanzees. No fossil trace of the last common ancestor, which lived some time before six million years ago, according to genetic studies, has yet come to light.

    The other two significant stages occurred with the rise of Australopithecus, which lived from about four million to one million years ago, and then the emergence of Homo, our own genus, before two million years ago. The ancestral relationship of Ardipithecus to Australopithecus has not been determined, but Lucy’s australopithecine kin are generally recognized as the ancestral group from which Homo evolved.

    Scientists not involved in the new research hailed its importance, placing the Ardi skeleton on a pedestal alongside notable figures of hominid evolution like Lucy and the 1.6-million-year-old Turkana Boy from Kenya, an almost complete specimen of Homo erectus with anatomy remarkably similar to modern Homo sapiens.

    David Pilbeam, a professor of human evolution at Harvard University who had no role in the discovery, said in an e-mail message that the Ardi skeleton represented “a genus plausibly ancestral to Australopithecus” and began “to fill in the temporal and structural ‘space’ between the apelike common ancestor and Australopithecus.”

    Andrew Hill, a paleoanthropologist at Yale University who was also not involved in the research, noted that Dr. White had kept “this skeleton in his closet for the last 15 years or so, but I think it has been worth the wait.” In some ways the specimen’s features are surprising, Dr. Hill added, “but it makes a very satisfactory animal for understanding the changes that have taken place along the human lineage.”

    The first comprehensive reports describing the skeleton and related findings, the result of 17 years of study, are being published Friday in the journal Science. Eleven papers by 47 authors from 10 countries describe the analysis of more than 110 Ardipithecus specimens from a minimum of 36 different individuals, including Ardi.

    The paleoanthropologists wrote in one of the articles that Ardipithecus was “so rife with anatomical surprises that no one could have imagined it without direct fossil evidence.”

    A bounty of animal and plant material — “every seed, every piece of fossil wood, every scrap of bone,” Dr. White said — was gathered to set the scene of the cooler, more humid woodland habitat in which these hominids had lived.

    This was one of the first surprises, said Giday WoldeGabriel, a geologist at Los Alamos National Laboratory, because it upset the hypothesis that upright walking had evolved as an adaptation to life on grassy savanna.

    The discovery site, on what is now an arid floodplain along the middle stretch of the Awash River in Ethiopia, is 140 miles northeast of Addis Ababa and 45 miles south of Hadar, where Lucy was found in 1974 by Donald Johanson, with whom Dr. White collaborated in analyzing those fossils.

    Gen Suwa, a paleoanthropologist now at the University of Tokyo, made the first discovery in 1992: a single upper molar. Yohannes Haile-Selassie, an Ethiopian curator of anthropology at the Cleveland Museum of Natural History, uncovered the first skeletal bones. A preliminary report on the new species was published in 1994.

    But the fossils, which are housed at the anthropology museum in Addis Ababa, were so plentiful, fragmentary and potentially significant that Dr. White held back from further public discussion of the research, even while discoveries of older fossils were being made.

    One discovery was of an earlier species of Ardipithecus from elsewhere in Ethiopia. Other finds, perhaps from more than six million years ago and given other species names, were excavated in Chad and Kenya. Their bones indicate that they also walked upright, scientists say, but the fossils are too few to draw any definitive conclusions.

    Ardi’s skull, Dr. Pilbeam said, appears to be more similar to the older Chad hominid than to younger australopithecines. This indicates that the fossils from Chad and Ethiopia possibly represent species of the Ardipithecus genus, or closely related genera.

    From the new research, scientists inferred that Ardi was female, based on its small and lightly built skull and its canine teeth, which are small compared with other individuals at the site.

    Dr. Suwa, a specialist in fossil teeth, said the more than 145 teeth collected at the site were of the size and shape and had wear patterns showing that the individuals were omnivorous eaters of plants and nuts, as well as small mammals, but were not as big consumers of fruits as are living chimps and gorillas. Ardi probably fed in trees and on the ground.

    Dr. Suwa also noted that males had stubby canine teeth, more like those of modern humans, in contrast to the projecting tusklike upper canines of chimps and gorillas, suggesting that Ardipithecus teeth no longer functioned as weapons or displays in male-male or male-female conflicts. In fact, the male and female upper canines are similar.

    This was seen as further evidence that the species had already evolved a distinctive trait of early prehumans. C. Owen Lovejoy, an anatomist at Kent State University and lead author of two of the journal reports, speculated that these hominids had a social system that involved less competition among males and that this suggested the beginning of pair bonding between males and females.

    Dr. Pilbeam disputed this conjecture, saying, “This is a restatement of Owen Lovejoy’s ideas going back almost three decades, which I found unpersuasive then and still do.”

    In his articles and an interview, Dr. Lovejoy described the five years he spent analyzing the Ardipithecus pelvis, which appeared to be in transition between a structure originally suited for life in trees and one modified for early upright walking. By contrast, the pelvis of the Lucy species had already evolved nearly all of the adaptations for bipedality.

    Asked at a news conference in Washington what Lucy might have said to her new-found “sister,” Dr. Lovejoy replied, “She would have challenged her to a race, and Lucy would have won handily.”Although the lower pelvis is still primitive, Dr. Lovejoy found, changes in the upper pelvis enabled the species to walk on two legs with a straightened hip, “but probably with less speed and efficiency than humans.” A few scientists think this walking evidence to be only circumstantial. The lower part of the pelvis, “still almost entirely apelike,” indicates retention of powerful hamstring muscles for climbing.

    Dr. White, Berhane Asfaw of the Rift Valley Research Service in Ethiopia and other team members concluded that “despite the genetic similarities of living humans and chimpanzees, the ancestor we last shared probably differed substantially from any extant African ape.”

    As Dr. Hill of Yale said, “It is always new specimens, particularly those from little known time periods or geographic areas, that provoke the greatest changes in our ideas.”

    Looking ahead, Dr. White lamented that there were so few sites in Africa known to have fossil deposits six million to seven million years old. “We are getting so close to that common ancestor of hominids and chimps, and we’d love to find an earlier skeleton,” he said.
    Not sure if I should use the Large Hardon thread for science stuff, but I figured this could use its own topic, even though it'll turn into another religion debate by page 2.

  2. #2
    The Mizzle Fizzle of Nikkei's Haremizzle

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    22,049
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bismarck

    You beat me to it! I was just about to post this, great find. :D

  3. #3
    DEUS VULT
    FITE ME

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10,606
    BG Level
    9
    Blog Entries
    4

    That's really quite amazing; been reading up about discoveries of bone fragments and molars as mentioned in the article, but if they have a skeleton as complete as Lucy (which is really why she's as famous as she is), this is incredible.

  4. #4
    The Mizzle Fizzle of Nikkei's Haremizzle

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    22,049
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bismarck

    Quote Originally Posted by isladar View Post
    That's really quite amazing; been reading up about discoveries of bone fragments and molars as mentioned in the article, but if they have a skeleton as complete as Lucy (which is really why she's as famous as she is), this is incredible.

    That is what intrigued me about it as well. When I read saw it initially I figured it was some femur or something they found but wow at the amount of material they found.

    Simply amazing.

  5. #5
    DEUS VULT
    FITE ME

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10,606
    BG Level
    9
    Blog Entries
    4

    I'm surprised they're emphasizing upright bipedal behavior as much as they are -- from what I understood they have stuff from S. tchadensis dating from 6 - 7 mya that they're pretty sure was already bipedal, and calling that the earliest adaptation of hominid.

  6. #6
    Banned.

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    17,471
    BG Level
    9
    FFXI Server
    Ifrit
    WoW Realm
    Area 52

    Quote Originally Posted by isladar View Post
    I'm surprised they're emphasizing
    Water on mars was discovered around 15 times over the last few years. Scientific news are always fucking retarded.


    That said, this new is still pretty cool if it can help them find new informations (or build a more accurate evolution model).

  7. #7
    The Mizzle Fizzle of Nikkei's Haremizzle

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    22,049
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bismarck

    Quote Originally Posted by isladar View Post
    I'm surprised they're emphasizing upright bipedal behavior as much as they are -- from what I understood they have stuff from S. tchadensis dating from 6 - 7 mya that they're pretty sure was already bipedal, and calling that the earliest adaptation of hominid.
    Yeah that too struck me as odd seeing as how Sahe is as widely and uniformly accepted as bipedal origins as you can possibly get. Unless this is just something from a different genus entirely?

    idk it stuck me as odd too seeing that.

  8. #8
    The Mizzle Fizzle of Nikkei's Haremizzle

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    22,049
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bismarck

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaylia View Post
    Water on mars was discovered about 15 times over the last few years. Scientific news are always fucking retarded.
    Alleya was on to something...

    http://zs1.smbc-comics.com/comics/20090830.gif


    Quote Originally Posted by Kaylia View Post
    That said, this new is still pretty cool if it can help them find new informations (or build a more accurate evolution model).

    This, tenfold.

  9. #9
    DEUS VULT
    FITE ME

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10,606
    BG Level
    9
    Blog Entries
    4

    I'm mad most hominid evolutionary models I've seen still make it look as if shit just evolved in a straight line, even as they're trying to put forth that all kinds of adaptations spun off like in the case of this discovery.

    I'm wondering also at the fact that A. ramidus was heavier and taller than Lucy; she's tiny.. most of what I read assumes that Lucy hominid ancestors would have been even smaller than she was.

  10. #10
    DEUS VULT
    FITE ME

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    10,606
    BG Level
    9
    Blog Entries
    4

    Also Miz when I'm more conveniently situated to you we are going to have a really really long conversation, and it's going to be awesome.

  11. #11
    The Mizzle Fizzle of Nikkei's Haremizzle

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    22,049
    BG Level
    10
    FFXI Server
    Bismarck

    Quote Originally Posted by isladar View Post
    Also Miz when I'm more conveniently situated to you we are going to have a really really long conversation, and it's going to be awesome.

    Damn right, that is mandatory milady. You are too awesome for words.

  12. #12
    Salvage Bans
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    800
    BG Level
    5

    http://www.tvland.com/photogallery/p...atavegamin.jpg
    srsly guys... i know it was in black and white, but she's not that old. finding something older isn't the least bit surprising

  13. #13
    Sea Torques
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    620
    BG Level
    5
    WoW Realm
    Gorgonnash

    should name it Hera.

  14. #14
    Banned.

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    17,471
    BG Level
    9
    FFXI Server
    Ifrit
    WoW Realm
    Area 52

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizango View Post
    Alleya was on to something...

    [img]http://zs1.smbc-comics.com/comics/20090830.gif





    This, tenfold.
    Yeah, this comic is like the best thing ever. Made me laugh so much the first time it was posted.

  15. #15
    Saint Daahan Von Quitter the 1st
    Patron of Yin

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    4,564
    BG Level
    7

    When the title said "predates Lucy" i thought it they were talking about Lucy from I Love Lucy.

    cuz she's old

  16. #16
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    12,823
    BG Level
    9
    FFXI Server
    Bahamut

    Dr. Lovejoy
    Lovejoy...












    http://dimpost.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/lovejoy.jpg
    the irony!

  17. #17
    I Am, Who I Am.
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    15,658
    BG Level
    9
    FFXIV Character
    Trixi Sephyuyx
    FFXIV Server
    Excalibur
    FFXI Server
    Ragnarok

    Lol, Discovery Channel already has a special for this, this Sunday.

  18. #18
    Ridill
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,210
    BG Level
    9
    FFXI Server
    Asura

    Quote Originally Posted by Daahan View Post
    When the title said "predates Lucy" i thought it they were talking about Lucy from I Love Lucy.

    cuz she's old
    I thought they meant Lucy was it's prey, and it killed her.

  19. #19
    Relic Shield
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    1,514
    BG Level
    6

    'Ardi:' Fossil Discovery Is Oldest Human Ancestor - ABC News

    Video.
    There are also pictures in various links but I have not hosted them. I cant get onto the OP's site's link without subscribing so sorry if I posted something there.

  20. #20
    Banned.

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    6,859
    BG Level
    8

    This is timely, a I just found out the chaplain Im deploying with is actually a creationist.

    Fun times. Fun times.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. naruto/bleach up to date?
    By Zigma in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 2006-08-20, 08:26
  2. PS3 release date?
    By Merlyn in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 2006-04-26, 11:46
  3. Meeting Again Adult Dating
    By chilicheese in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 2006-03-24, 23:55
  4. Meet Meeting Adult Dating
    By Lia1984 in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 2006-03-20, 02:20