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  1. #1
    DEUS VULT
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    What's Better?

    Rocl:To avoid the unecessary creation of thousands of simple gear comparison threads, we'll attempt to make this your generic gear question thread. If it doesn't work, I blame Suiram. If it does work, all credit goes to me. So let us begin with the OP's question:

    Blau Dolch or Stylet??

    Original Thread: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/46517-whats-better.html

    The Second Thread

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    WAS IST BETTERSTEIN IV

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    Vas ist Better Nein

    Ten! Ten! Ah, ah, ah.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentleroy View Post
    Now, this is going to be a weird one, but I'd reckon a Ryunohige drg is the best DD in the game, given that level 90 ryu gives +25% drakes damage, which already competes with a lot of empyrean WSs.
    First of all its not 25% its 15%
    Second of all DRG lacks att since it has no berserk/last resort and low DA rate. Abyssea gives them more then other jobs but outside Ryunohige DRG has no chance in pure damage with Veret MNK or Ukon WAR and recently probably also Masa/Amano SAM (I'm not sure about DNC with Twashtar).
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    First of all its not 25% its 15%
    Did mythics only get a 15% boost? Because it's a 1.25 multiplier for relics.
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    Everything I keep hearing has a well geared, mythic drg right behind a war ukon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadgye View Post
    Did mythics only get a 15% boost? Because it's a 1.25 multiplier for relics.
    Was pretty certain testing with Atonement showed Mythics got 15% while Relics got 25%, but I have neither so I can't say for certain!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jornna View Post
    Everything I keep hearing has a well geared, relic drg right behind a war ukon.
    Relic or mythic?

    Also, can someone explain to me why Drakes is worse than Ukko's? Does the extra 10% str mod and 1.0 fTP really outweigh 2 extra critical hits?

    Also, despite lacking attack, I don't see how it has no chance outside against those other two jobs.
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    I meant mythic, sorry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentleroy View Post
    Relic or mythic?

    Also, can someone explain to me why Drakes is worse than Ukko's? Does the extra 10% str mod and 1.0 fTP really outweigh 2 extra critical hits?

    Also, despite lacking attack, I don't see how it has no chance outside against those other two jobs.
    Drakes isn't worse than Ukko's, WAR is just better than DRG.
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    Best offhand dagger for Rudras storm on dancer, with the inclusion of the new climactic flourish buff.

    I'm guessing it's either a Str kila or a Dex kila.

    Alternatively I have a crit dmg+5% yataghan, which would work now with CF. Finally there's the other obvious possibilities of magian daggers. WS dmg+10%, store tp, tp bonus, etc etc... What would give me the biggest epeen numbers?

    Also: I'm looking at the work itd take to do glavoid and itza and I just don't know if going after twashtar after derpaderba is that great of an idea. I have the dagger ready to go down either path, and I have all the crests to fully upgrade the dagger once I get the 30 coins.

    Would going down the walk of echoes path be completely fucktarded or is the walk of echoes version a still pretty ok dagger?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocl View Post
    Was pretty certain testing with Atonement showed Mythics got 15% while Relics got 25%, but I have neither so I can't say for certain!
    This is correct, yeah.
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    If you put wyvern dmg + wyvern aftermath + jump 100% crits im sure it would be pretty close to a war or a mnk outside. But unless you have perfect scenarios for both job going head to head who really knows. Pen and paper can only go so far.
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    So DNC is a better DD than THF? By how much?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeelo View Post
    If you put wyvern dmg + wyvern aftermath + jump 100% crits im sure it would be pretty close to a war or a mnk outside. But unless you have perfect scenarios for both job going head to head who really knows. Pen and paper can only go so far.
    The higher tier jumps already crit 100% w/ wyvern out.
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    No one has reported what the 90 ryun even does for the new jumps though, might be something we dont even know about it. But yea i was referring to the 2 new jumps being 100% crit, just worded it bad i guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentleroy View Post
    Relic or mythic?

    Also, can someone explain to me why Drakes is worse than Ukko's? Does the extra 10% str mod and 1.0 fTP really outweigh 2 extra critical hits?

    Also, despite lacking attack, I don't see how it has no chance outside against those other two jobs.
    It would be super hard to explain that w/o making a few hours worth calculation.
    Its even hard to make math for mythic that will take advantage and disadvantage of saving 300TP and OAT.
    I think info about this OAT stacking with TA/DA and how many times it can proc during WS is very limited or pretty much none.

    It will highly depend on how good you could support those 3min of aftermath. If you could get 300TP before and fight wouldnt take longer then 3min then maybe it could be on par. On the other hand MNK would rock impetus,berserk,aggressor,focus etc. It would highly depend on how many Ds you have there. If WAR can take advantage of retaliation it gets massive boost to damage and no DD is even close probably. MNK gets less but also something while DRG damage wont benefit from tanking at all.

    Idk why would you ignore much lower att on DRG. White damage is a large part of total damage and it will matter a lot. Sure there is angon but you are limited to 1 mob per 3min.

    In best scenerio: many DDs, one mob, 300TP before fight, 3min fight Ryunohige DRG would be comparable but otherwise it should be behind mnk and war.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leva View Post
    So DNC is a better DD than THF? By how much?
    By a lot if we talking about twashtar dnc and mob that doesn't resist darkness a lot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leva View Post
    So DNC is a better DD than THF? By how much?
    Oh totally, 10 times over. Not like I'm biased or anything.

    But honestly speaking I have no idea, where dancer is concerned, dancer's output is highly dependent on the skill of the player, more so than any other melee DD out there. Wars and etc can just smash shit, but dancer's strength lies in its insane tp gain rates, critical mods, and ability to spam skillchains like a motherfucker.

    If you're dancer sucks monkey balls at micromanaging his JAs, he won't come close to any thf. But in the right hands dancer is a beast. So it's hard to say if dancer is better/worse than any healing or DD job, simply because its so strongly based on the skill of the player.

    But Climactic flourish does make our Eviscerations beastly in abyssea now, though I don't understand why Climactic flourish + Dancing edge doesn't put out as big of numbers, when dancing edge does more damage outside of abyssea.

    It sued to be that evisceration's ability to crit is what made it so good in abyssea, but now that we can make both crit, why do my Eviscerations still do 1-2K more damage than my DEs?
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  18. #18
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    Evis is all hits, and DE is first hit? I thought someone tested the new buff to just affect first hit
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    It only affects the first hit of a WS.
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    Yeah, it only affects the first hit no matter what. Also, TP Bonus +100 Fusetto is a strong offhand if you're using Climactic -> Rudra's a lot. Don't tell them, because I don't want this nerfed, but DNC shits all over THF right now just like I predicted it would if this happened. Realistically, we're probably able to Climactic->WS as often as they're able to Sneak or Trick Attack, especially considering we can get multiple WSs out of each Climactic use and it's much more forgiving than Trick or Sneak Attack both with the directional and attack round requirements.

    I'm not sure how DNC is as far as DDing goes really, give me a month to see how it stacks up. I'm still trying to adjust my playstyle to deal with this change and trying to figure out how much I'll actually be using Rudra's. It's pretty fun, really. I've never really wished that I got one more FM per Step before, but now I definitely do. It's possible to play in a very aggressive way, but you're always starved for Finishing Moves and you spend a ton of time waiting for animation delay because you just blew off half a dozen JAs in a row.

    I do know that I can self-Dark with two stronger weaponskills than I had before once every 90 seconds, but I burn a lot of FMs doing it and that level of self-dark is overkill for pretty much every trash monster. Whether it would be better to play in a simpler way (Reverse -> WS, repeat) is going to depend on the setting. Anything with more than a few players is going to be rough. In Abyssea, it's almost certainly better to just stick with Evisceration in all but a few cases, because it's much more regular damage and still one-shots monsters, even though Rudra's can put out some ridiculous damage now. Imagine if you did 14k every WS (you won't, that's an outlier with 300TP to be sure).

    I'm finding that ~3 FM -> Climactic -> Presto -> Step -> Rudra's (12 TP) -> Attack round x2 -> Reverse (57 TP) -> Rudra's works for self-Dark with Haste buffs, as long as the monster survives the first Rudra's. If you have No Foot Rise up, it obviously becomes safer. I'd like to figure out how to get it down to 2 FM for Climactic instead of 3, but going with 2 definitely relies on Conserve TP at the moment.
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