PLD/NIN

[Ramor]

Ok, so I haven't really been on FFXI a lot lately but I've always wanted to pick up the /nin option on my Paladin, but I have a few questions first as it's been relatively not discussed within my LS as a viable option (since we have pretty incredible NIN and *had* incredible BRD/NIN).

So, to get to it...

What type of stuff do I need the most?

My LS doesn't currently do a lot of GHNM but does quite exstensively sea/limbus/sky/dynamis etc.... So getting any gear from that really isn't a problem (and to the best of my understanding, albeit a couple pieces, those're where most of my gear is going to end up coming from anyway).

In terms of keeping hate, I realize I should build a nice haste set but what parts of my gear should I be willing to sacrifice to bump my flash timer down? I'd assume Walahra turban/Homam Hands/Swift(or Sonic) Belt/Homam feet, but is all of it necessary with a BRD and RDM/WHM hasting me?

What about other slots of gear, am I going to basically end up constantly switching from Haste/Enmity for Flash to Cure/HP+/Enmity for Cure hate and then some Fast Cast gear for Utsus or how does it generally work? I'm not entirely sure which pieces I should be willing to switch on a regular basis in terms of maximizing efficiency with both haste/fast cast/hp/enmity, so I was hoping for a bit of help.

At current I'm missing Homam pants/feet and Loq earring (from what I understand I *should* have), but the rest of the things I've mentioned I'm pretty set on, a few upgrades in terms of Hades->Hades+1, but nothing substantial.

Also what about merits? Merit sent cooldown/HP/Enmity? I don't really have plans to level any other jobs or use them (aside from WAR for meriting) so would enmity really end up being a problem?

Any help appreciated, thanks.

~Ram

[Shadida]

Sounds to me like you answered most of your own questions.

[Ramor]

Well, I understand the basics (and a lot of the small tweaks to be made to it) but I still can't really seem to get it to work as well as I'd need, kind of addicted to my voke which is a problem, but everywhere I go I see lots of PLD/NIN tanks, yet it doesn't work for me...not sure what I'm doing wrong

What about things like SATA and such? Haven't tried it on many things..hoping to get a shot at some crappy sky gods this week (or maybe some Ix'mobs), but..I dunno, still kinda weary about it I guess.

[Eaglestrike]

How is it not working for you? What mobs are you fighting where this is a problem? Shadows not staying up, not enough hate generation?

The most important thing is to figure this out on your own, you have the basic idea though. My LS generally has two PLD's coming from different stances. The main PLD (he's upgrading Aegis, I have a Mandau so PLD is my 2nd job) is geared mostly for enmity.

Macau+1/kaiser/lamian+1/Rosebogen+1
aegishajmr/harmonia's/hades+1/ethereal
valor/homam/herc/sattvas
valor/trance/homam/af2(just got homam feet)

He's geared more towards +enmity and generally tanks the first 3-4min of a fight.

I have haste gear from THF and haven't gotten the better enmity stuff (and only recently got +enmity merits) so I have a focus on that (or rather, I have nothing else to use)

Macau+1/koenig/bibiki seashell
turban/parade/suppa/ethereal
gallant/homam/heca/BQ
highbreath/swift/homam/homam

Since he has nearly twice my enmity and group 2 merits and recast timers down I have to spam him with cures to have any chance at catching up to him hate-wise. This happens after 3-4min (to keep this short, there is a "hate cap" where you can't have a higher level of enmity and he reaches it quickly and I do it slowly) and from there we simply trade hate and cure each other.

IMO, which gearset to use will depend on your co-tank. If you have a good amount of haste gear, a second march is wasted on you since recast is capped at 50% haste. So having the brd sing Ballad2/March would be best. I mostly only tank for Cerberus (and only when no other tanks are around) and he's pretty much the easiest thing to tank so I don't have a ton of experience with this.

If your bard is singing 2x March, I'd gear mostly for +enmity, keep Loq/Homam legs on and that should basically cap your recasts. As for what to do, flash spam, time JA's as necessary, look for people to cure. On Cerb I heal myself, my co-tank, melee hurting themselves with spikes, etc. Anything I can to gain more hate. Tell your mages to only cure you if things start looking bad at the start so you can get a few flashes in. After a while you should reach a "hate cap" so you can de-equip some +enmity and gear more for +haste and maybe even use the +cure potency mace to be more efficient. For more help talk to your NIN/DRK's. Stun = Flash hate-wise, cure 4/3 > bind/sleep/absorbs, so a strat that works for them will work for you even more.

[Ramor]

I suppose the problem is more with me maintaining the hate, I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing wrong but it seems that I can get hate originally, then I just sort of fizzle out after a few minutes which becomes a real problem, not to mention our WHMs are kinda zerg whms, we have like 10 at some events and I usually don't beat them to zerging our current tank(s) with a Cure for hate.

Guess I'll just have to iron out the details on it a bit later, hoping to give it another shot some time soon.

[Kooldac]

Who are you losing hate to? It may be a problem with the person(s) you're losing hate to. No, I dont any of the HNM scene, but I understand tanking. Maybe, if you're new to the /nin strategy, tell whoever you're losing hate to go easy on the beginning to establish a firm hate control and once you think you have it on lock-down, give them the a-ok.

[Judai]

It depends on you and your LS.

Do you have 2 BRDs in tank party? If so, less Haste and more Enmity.
Only one BRD? You need to balance.

Personally, I swap in and out alot of gear. For my /jas I sawp in a lot onf Enmity. For Flash I swap in Haste where I can and add Enmity where I can't add Haste. For Utsu, I swap in Shield+ and Haste.

I usually Idle in Shield+ gear and HP+.

Sound slike your WHMs need to chill tho. I love curebombing myself personally. I have a few Equip Changes to switch to more HP just to cure myself for hate. PLD/NIN Builds and maintains Hate so fast and easy though, I'm not sure whats wrong.

Homam Legs/Hands are hawt. I use Loq/Hades+1 for earrings for Flash. Walhara Turban is ok but Assjammer is better imo. Just balance everything for your style though.

[Grey Jorildyn]

In terms of keeping hate, I realize I should build a nice haste set but what parts of my gear should I be willing to sacrifice to bump my flash timer down? I'd assume Walahra turban/Homam Hands/Swift(or Sonic) Belt/Homam feet, but is all of it necessary with a BRD and RDM/WHM hasting me?

my general rule of thumb on wearing haste gear all the time is that if i can't get the same amount, or greater, in enmity, i don't bother. so aegishjalmr/bahamut's mask bumps out walahra turban, but homam legs/feet/hands stay on all the time. "accessory" slots, as i call them (all the ones that don't make you blink/are not the main 5), are easier to just do swaps for. these include loquacious earring (optional, don't go crazy over this, it's a finishing touch), swift belt/speed/sonic belt (get whichever you can get the quickest), and maybe a blitz ring if you're feeling so daring or bored (i get questioned about this often but i like to maximize all setups no matter how minimal. generally if you have 1 BRD in your tank pt, they'll sing victory/bII, so gearing toward a haste build makes up for lack of second march, and the homam offers loads of useful MP that you will use.

What about other slots of gear, am I going to basically end up constantly switching from Haste/Enmity for Flash to Cure/HP+/Enmity for Cure hate and then some Fast Cast gear for Utsus or how does it generally work? I'm not entirely sure which pieces I should be willing to switch on a regular basis in terms of maximizing efficiency with both haste/fast cast/hp/enmity, so I was hoping for a bit of help.

if you suit up to wear 3 homam and the rest enmity/hp, you'll be looking at a lot of haste over time if you can balance out your recast merits and push your flash down enough. victory march+haste will be just fine once you're packing ~+10% haste and greater. enmity is utmost importance since this is your enmity-generator/leveler over the course of a long battle. cures are in there too, but flash can always be cast, cure cannot. of course, there are ways around this if you're willing to play around with bumping your hp about about 185ish and curing, then dropping back down. i do this all the time and i can't tell you how efficient it is in the long run. another rule of this for gear swapping is to try not to blink. it's a hassle and will slow you down and can screw up your target as well. the "perfect" setup is posted somewhere around here by Xavier in a no-too-old thread, and i've some screenshots of my own gear here a few posts down. that might be more useful to look at than typing it all. can PM me if you need help or whatever.

At current I'm missing Homam pants/feet and Loq earring (from what I understand I *should* have), but the rest of the things I've mentioned I'm pretty set on, a few upgrades in terms of Hades->Hades+1, but nothing substantial.

if you've got some gil lying around, you *can* use dusk feet for the time being. the pants i would shoot for before anything else if possible. valor/koenig are decent mixes in here, depending on what you like i suppose. i'd say the valor would be better for the small spell interruption rate down and the extra enmity. plus they offer some HP and a nice bit of enmity as opposed to koenig's boring evasion+10 which can't be relied on at all. also the upgrade from hades > hades+1 will be a marginal difference.

Also what about merits? Merit sent cooldown/HP/Enmity? I don't really have plans to level any other jobs or use them (aside from WAR for meriting) so would enmity really end up being a problem?

well from what i understand a lot of people do 5sent/5rampart, although that's without aegis. this seems to be an alright way to go, especially for something like tiamat that has such set 2min up/2min down timers. it works really well i've seen. personally i like to keep them all a bit closer because i have relic, so i went 4 sent/3 ramp/3 bash. depending on your race, choose your hp/mp appropriately. i'm elvaan, i did 8mp, hume might try 5hp/3mp, taru, 8 hp, etc. it's a preference thing. rarely does anything one-shot you in this game anyway so 1300+ hp is generally more than sufficient. remember that you're getting a nice bit from homam as well, so think ahead and factor that in before working on it all. if you don't plan on playing mage jobs on that particular character, the 4 enmity merits wouldn't hurt. they're relatively cheap to cap and are a nice bonus. it wouldn't really effect your warrior. if you're well-gear already, your rampages are pulling hate by now and nothing, even meriting enmity down, is gonna solve that problem. might as well go with it.

hope this helped.

[Luke]

I suppose the problem is more with me maintaining the hate.........our WHMs are kinda zerg whms, we have like 10 at some events and I usually don't beat them to zerging our current tank(s) with a Cure for hate.

Tell your WHM's to level SMN or BLM. WHM is so overrated nowadays with PLD/NIN tanks for most fights.

[Jeryhn]

I suppose the problem is more with me maintaining the hate.........our WHMs are kinda zerg whms, we have like 10 at some events and I usually don't beat them to zerging our current tank(s) with a Cure for hate.

Tell your WHM's to level SMN or BLM. WHM is so overrated nowadays with PLD/NIN tanks for most fights.

Not really. A good WHM/BLM with lots of MND and ES Slow helps a lot on SE's latest fad of making mobs severely resist Slow.

[divisortheory]

I suppose the problem is more with me maintaining the hate, I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing wrong but it seems that I can get hate originally, then I just sort of fizzle out after a few minutes which becomes a real problem, not to mention our WHMs are kinda zerg whms, we have like 10 at some events and I usually don't beat them to zerging our current tank(s) with a Cure for hate.

Guess I'll just have to iron out the details on it a bit later, hoping to give it another shot some time soon.

What is your typical strategy for hate generation? And what does your "cure the other tank" macro look like?

[Luke]

That justifies having a bunch of WHM's around? Not saying less WHM's > more WHM's but I can't see what so many WHM's would be doing besides using slow every 10minutes.

[Damane]

Tell your WHM's to level SMN or BLM. WHM is so overrated nowadays with PLD/NIN tanks for most fights.

so you want to say bye bye on a fully merited shellra V and 120 points of barspell resistance?

[Judai]

Forgot to add merits. I did 4Sent/4BAsh/2Rampart. I also have 1 Chivalry/IronWill/Guardian. Eventually I plan to get Fealty for another small hate /ja and max Chiv. I have 3 Enmity+ Merits and I am a BLM. +Enm will help your PLD more then hurt any other jobs, other then WHM maybe.

To the guy about WHMs are useless, you are retarded. WHMs heal much easier and better then anyone else. Just tell your WHMs to use more regen and let you cure yourself and co-tanks, unless you are struggling to get shadows up for some reason.

[Luke]

I didn't specify, but yeah.. 1 WHM is good, not 10 :X

I didn't say WHM's were useless, just that PLD/NIN is strong as hell because of the MP regen they can get, not even counting relic instrument bonus, thus making WHM's not as important as they were when PLD/WAR and NIN/WAR was used mostly. Maybe my opinion is biased because I'm taru, but I usually have no problem keeping everyone healed in the alliance w/ 1 WHM be it faf/nid, tiamat, w/e. My LS is really small though, so we aren't melee heavy, so stoneskin helps reduce a lot of damage for everyone.

To OP.. curing is one of the best ways to get and keep hate on PLD/NIN. With so many WHM's spamming you, you can't do that.

[Ryko]

Devotion/Bar-anything are god. Assuming I'm of the position to do so, I go out of my way to basically main heal when co-tanking so anything that gives me more MP is a godsend.

Atm I just use gallant shoes +1 since I don't have homam shoes and I try not to blink out while recasting shadows anymore, ate the floor one too many times because of it, especially since I have a long name I need to finish up my boxer's mantle so I can make a non-blinking shield+ set for recasting shadows (neck, back, earring). Otherwise I pretty much just load on enmity. If I find myself getting assed out on shadow timers while still holding hate well I'll switch in swift belt, then maybe dusk shoes.

The best thing about PLD/NIN is that it can do the same job with less support around in a lot of cases, it doesn't mean that I would say no to an extra healer if we had one around though.

[Therin]

If your shell just does sky/limbus/dynamis/sea, there's really no reason to bother building a PLD/NIN set except for Proto-Omega and Proto-Ultima (actually, you can PLD/WAR these easily too, but /NIN makes things go a little more smoothly since they all have a couple high damage WSes).

Guardians in sky die too fast to bother, and nothing in sea hits hard enough to warrant it either. As for Dynamis, you need voke, so that really only leaves Omega and Ultima. For these, just use your Walahra Turban as well as any Homam gear you have (excluding head and body for obvious reasons). As for the rest of your gear, pile whatever piece has the most enmity in virtually every other slot, and be ready to macro on your HP gear/Resist gear/-% dmg gear when Ultima starts to use Citadel Buster.

As for the hate holding issue, make sure you're getting Haste and Ballad/March at all times. This will significantly lower your Flash recast timer, even more so if you're using Walahra Turban and Homam gear. Flash constantly. Every few minutes and within reason you can also pop a JA if you're fighting something that doesn't require you to use them for specific reasons (i.e. Sentinel for Nidhogg/Tiamat's Mighty Strikes and Rampart for Aerial Wyrms and Citadel Buster).

Other than that, TRY to take SOME damage, so you can Cure yourself. Do mostly Cure IVs with Cure IIIs dropped on other people whenever you have the MP and when hate isn't locked on to you. Due to the nature of +enmity, if you're piling a lot of enmity, then a lot of Cure IIIs actually produce more hate than the same amount of MP in Cure IVs, because of your additional enmity procs on each cast. The amount you cure is much greater than the damage you take, in terms of hate, but you obviously have to be careful to not TP the mob too much and also to not take so much damage that you can't keep up with cures.

If you do all of these things, you should have no issues whatsoever with hate. If you still have issues with hate, you're probably fighting shit like Guardians or Dynamis or non-Omega/Ultima Limbus mobs, which are far to weak to even warrant NIN sub in the first place.

[Ryko]

I never wanna /war tank byakko again >_> fuck that, everything else in sky is a joke then here comes rapecat. Might have to do with the fact that I never really put much into my /WAR set though, I have most of the gear for it at this point and just dont bother.

[raisen]

Personnally, i use haste, pro5 shell5 ( on debuffing mobs), regens ,barspell(if needed) and devotion for my tanks.Then i cure the rest of the ally lol.

Whm is good for some things: ememrgency high cures,buffs and some loljas.

i know a lot of ppl dont think that whms are so usefull nowadays, but i disagree with that.It's just the way of playing it that changed .

On topic, i think that you answer to your question yourself, haste +shield skill+fast cast for utsu,enmit+haste+fast cast for flash, enmity (and cure potency+) for cure 4(and hp+ if you're curing yourself).Try to match your tank partner(if you have one) so that he doesn't have so many enmity+ that you cant pull hate from him.
Oh and say to your whm(s) to avoid curebombing you, it's not the smart thing to do as whm, regen do the work nicely and you can cure yourself if you're well refreshed(and that you dont mess up with utsu).

[Therin]

I never wanna /war tank byakko again >_> fuck that, everything else in sky is a joke then here comes rapecat. Might have to do with the fact that I never really put much into my /WAR set though, I have most of the gear for it at this point and just dont bother.

Isn't your shield not even capped, or did you finally get around to doing that?

We did 7 Byakkos last Friday night and I didn't die once, it's really a joke now with the shield update and stuff. Just use Phalanx II or Noctoshield. I hit proc cap on him easily so he normally hits for 20-40 damage, whenever my shield goes off.

Oh, and another thing that I forgot to add to my post earlier is that you should look into getting a Templar Mace. As for your main weapon slot, the two best pieces to use are Macuahuitl +1 and Templar Mace. But to be honest, I like the mace a lot better now that I've used it more. It brings my Cure IIIs up to 215 HP per and my Cure IVs to like 437, so it's very nice.