Politics: Bush commutes Libby's prison term

[aurik]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/02/ ... index.html


Anyone else outraged at this turn of events?

[Quicklet]

No.

[XxSlusherxx]

It really sucks but I can't even begin to be suprised by this.

[Kuya]

BAHAHAHA

[Ddz]

lol

[Unklemonkey]

Honestly I'm surprised he didn't get a full pardon

[Ivve]

Wow, you mean to tell me that absolutely nobody in our government is going to be held responsible for the events of the last 8 years? SHOCKING!

Yes, I am pissed about it. No, I am not surprised.

[Correction]

Yup, that's pretty much how I expected it to end.

Fuck Bush. He even chickens out on firm decisions like whether or not to punish former employees for breaking the law.

[Keno]

This is pretty rudimentary actually.. Most presidents pardon or commute a few people in their stay in office. As another poster already said, I'm surprised he didn't get a full pardon. Frankly I'm of the impression that jail time for non violent crimes is overdoing it, as is. Fines and community service and the like are much better sentences as they actually put something back into the community instead of taking it out.

[skurlover]

Prove that he actually outed her name and maybe I'll give a shit about him getting a free pass. He was railroaded from the beginning.

EDIT: Cue everyone saying we need to change the law because this president used powers fully within his rights. Look up Clinton's record if you need the other side of the story.

[aurik]

This is pretty rudimentary actually.. Most presidents pardon or commute a few people in their stay in office. As another poster already said, I'm surprised he didn't get a full pardon. Frankly I'm of the impression that jail time for non violent crimes is overdoing it, as is. Fines and community service and the like are much better sentences as they actually put something back into the community instead of taking it out.

While pardons are relatively numerous (I think there have been several hundred in Bush's term so far), most pardons are given only to those who have long since served their sentences and have since demonstrated value to the community to a significant enough degree to warrant having their record expunged, and have professed contrition for their act. Libby obviously fails all 3 of these conditions, that's why he's not getting a pardon.

Still, granting clemency for someone because the president thinks the punishment is "excessive" is usurping the power of the courts. (As if it's not bad enough that his administration hasn't already usurped the power of the legislature through the use of signing statements and selective prosecution through removing attourneys who pursue political targets with more or less vigor than the taste of his administration)

It's setting a bad example that the president can and should be involved in the sentencing process, something heretofore entirely the jurisdiction of the judiciary.

Edit to the poster above me: he wasn't convicted of outing her. He was convicted of obstructing justice. Which makes his clemency even more egregarious; it reeks of quid-pro-quo: "I'll take the fall if you grant me clemency"

[skurlover]

Edit to the poster above me: he wasn't convicted of outing her. He was convicted of obstructing justice. Which makes his clemency even more egregarious; it reeks of quid-pro-quo: "I'll take the fall if you grant me clemency"

Correct, but if you remember from the start, he was villified as the one that outed her, thus creating a bias throughout the entire process.

[aurik]

Edit to the poster above me: he wasn't convicted of outing her. He was convicted of obstructing justice. Which makes his clemency even more egregarious; it reeks of quid-pro-quo: "I'll take the fall if you grant me clemency"

Correct, but if you remember from the start, he was villified as the one that outed her, thus creating a bias throughout the entire process.

That's not for the president to decide. That's for the courts to find on appeal.

[XxSlusherxx]

Prove that he actually outed her name and maybe I'll give a shit about him getting a free pass. He was railroaded from the beginning.

EDIT: Cue everyone saying we need to change the law because this president used powers fully within his rights. Look up Clinton's record if you need the other side of the story.

if this is what he was tried for it would have been TREASON which would have been a bit worse than 2 1/2 years.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

(I think there have been several hundred in Bush's term so far)

Wrong. He has actually used the pardon power less than most.

[

Those attorneys "serve at the pleasure of the president." Pretty sure that means he can fire them when he wants to, why he wants to.

At least Scooter Libby wasn't a mobster.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

(I think there have been several hundred in Bush's term so far)

Wrong. He has actually used the pardon power less than most.

[/quote]
Still, granting clemency for someone because the president thinks the punishment is "excessive" is usurping the power of the courts. (As if it's not bad enough that his administration hasn't already usurped the power of the legislature through the use of signing statements and selective prosecution through removing attourneys who pursue political targets with more or less vigor than the taste of his administration)
[/quote]

Those attorneys "serve at the pleasure of the president." Pretty sure that means he can fire them when he wants to, why he wants to.

At least Scooter Libby wasn't a mobster.

[Devek]

This is nothing new. Welcome to America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clint ... ontroversy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pe ... H._W._Bush

[Fuuko]

Not surprised.

I'm conflicted on this one. One the one hand the entire case towards Libby never should have even happened. Since Fitzgerald knew who outed Plame very early into the investigation, a Richard Armitage. Who has admitted to leaking her name, to Bob Novak. As well as Ms. Plame pretty obviously not being covert, or outing her a crime. So to me it reeks of a political witch hunt, because he thought he had to nail someone for something.

On the other hand, if he did lie, even in the bullshit situation, he should be punished. The repubs did try to impeach Clinton of perjury after all.

[Correction]

So wait, people who aren't outraged by this.

A man can have a fair trial, get convicted and SENTENCED, then have that sentence commuted by his former boss?

But an American citizen can get detained on american soil for 2 years without even being charged, because the president says so?

Oh I get it, we live in a monarchy...

[aurik]

Those attorneys "serve at the pleasure of the president." Pretty sure that means he can fire them when he wants to, why he wants to.

Those attourneys "serve at the pleasure of the president" in order to accomplish the administration's vision of justice. Typically they are all replaced at once, at the beginning of a term, as part of the "to the winner the spoils" system. Selectively firing a few for purely political reasons is clearly an improper use of power, just like making clemency decisions based on cronyism.

FYI, there were slightly over 100 pardons made by GWB, so my guess was in the right range--other presidents gave far more pardons. As of now, Bush has granted exactly 4 commutations, 3 of them to people who have been serving their sentences since before 2000 and only one to someone who has not yet served a day in jail.