Shield block numbers?

[Valyana]

It seems generally agreed that kite shields give the best tradeoff between block rate and damage reduction, but I haven't ever seen any specific numbers for either block rate (how much does +1 shield change it? how much does moving up a size reduce it? what is max block rate?) or damage reduction. Anyone have some?

Specifically, at the moment I'm wondering whether Light Buckler or Master Shield will block more for skilling up; how does +5 shield compare to one size smaller?

[Sidanoir]

I dont have figures but small buckler type shields block almost everytime it seems lol but for pretty much no damage reduction (then again my shield skill is crap so what do I know!)

[Faxanadu]

what we need is a size 1 shield with +enemity on it.

but to the original poster: Light Buckler is gonna activate more often, even without the +skill on it. Also, the mobs lvl plays an important role in how often you block. If your going for skill ups, check out the skill up charts that are used for weapon skill ups. I think the lvl ranges should apply to shields too.

[Ferien]

All shields cap ~65% block rate. Bucklers (should) start at that rate, Round shields a little lower, and you can get a Kite shield to that rate with enough Shield+. With the same amount of skill used to cap a Kite Shield, you'll get about a 40% block rate from a Tower shield. Most testing shows Aegis's proc rate varying along the same rates as a Kite shield. Also varies with mob level.

Copied from my tests on KI (http://www.killingifrit.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=121126):

Monastic Cavern, Coffer mobs (EP, L67 max), 302 Shield Skill, 75 PLD

Tatami Shield (size 4): blocked 129/332 attacks, 38.86%, estimated 80% damage reduction. Overall damage reduced = 30%
Koenig Shield (size 3): blocked 265/421 attacks, 62.95%, estimated 60% damage reduction. Overall damage reduced = 37.8%
Bulwark Shield (size 1): blocked 165/256 attacks, 64.45%, estimated 0% damage reduction. Overall damage reduced = 0%

Ignore the "estimated damage reduction" parts and insert whatever you think they are, as they were eyeballed. I think size 3s are closer to 50% per block, but it's tough to get good numbers on that.

[Shuemue]

Semi related, as pld/nin, would there be any value in using a size 1 shield for max block rate and mobs not interrupting casting of ichi etc?

[Bagel]

In theory it's not too hard to cap your block rate with a size 3 shield, making no difference between buckler and the traditional Koenig Shield. Neck Ear and Back are all slots where you can't get haste for recast, but can swap in shield skill for your Ichi without blinking even.

[Shuemue]

Boxer's Mantle is pretty essential then aye?

[Ryko]

Mantle, Torque and 2 earring comes out to 25 skill, if you don't have homam shoes then that raises to 37, if you have merits it goes up to 45, raising your skill to 321 without blinking at all, 309 with homam shoes, 304 with 1 earring (which is where most aegis users say they aim around anyway).

[Woozie]

Ferien, I still have a shit ton of data on shield block rates, but I've been procrastinating doing the calculations :/

[Shuemue]

Mantle, Torque and 2 earring comes out to 25 skill, if you don't have homam shoes then that raises to 37, if you have merits it goes up to 45, raising your skill to 321 without blinking at all, 309 with homam shoes, 304 with 1 earring (which is where most aegis users say they aim around anyway).

Won't immediately have homam feet, will never have knightly earring, so with mantle, af+1 feet, buckler earring, shield torque, merits, I'll have 309, that should be decent for a part time PLD right?

[Carnusty]

Oh wow, I've been wondering about the proc rates/damage mitigation of shields, thank Jebus for this thread.

I'm only PLD41 at the moment, but I've been curious about the merits of using a Buckler Earring myself...would it be that useful without other skill+ gear(or merits for that matter), or should I wait til I have PLD75 an a shield torque/gallant leggings before I purchase one? o.o

[Shuemue]

I'm 44 loltarupld at the moment, using Cassie + Buckler, very happy with them.

[Ferien]

Ferien, I still have a shit ton of data on shield block rates, but I've been procrastinating doing the calculations :/

lol, still have the script I wrote for you? I was actually tinkering with it the other day.

[Valyana]

Monastic Cavern, Coffer mobs (EP, L67 max), 302 Shield Skill, 75 PLD

Tatami Shield (size 4): blocked 129/332 attacks, 38.86%, estimated 80% damage reduction. Overall damage reduced = 30%
Koenig Shield (size 3): blocked 265/421 attacks, 62.95%, estimated 60% damage reduction. Overall damage reduced = 37.8%
Bulwark Shield (size 1): blocked 165/256 attacks, 64.45%, estimated 0% damage reduction. Overall damage reduced = 0%

Ignore the "estimated damage reduction" parts and insert whatever you think they are, as they were eyeballed. I think size 3s are closer to 50% per block, but it's tough to get good numbers on that.

Hmm, 20/40/60/80 would make sense for damage reduction amounts...

Wiki says that the def rating of the shield affects damage reduction, which seems unlikely to me, but perhaps Bulwark doesn't reduce damage at all because it is only Def:1.

If bucklers block so much already, do Aegis PLD really need any +Shield? Or doesn't it block as often as a buckler?

[Woozie]

Ferien, I still have a shit ton of data on shield block rates, but I've been procrastinating doing the calculations :/

lol, still have the script I wrote for you? I was actually tinkering with it the other day.

Yeah, I still have the script. Maybe I'll run it this weekend and get the numbers. I'm eventually planning to test varying levels of skill and agi on mobs of varying levels, but with my new job I just don't have much time anymore.

[Ferien]

Monastic Cavern, Coffer mobs (EP, L67 max), 302 Shield Skill, 75 PLD

Tatami Shield (size 4): blocked 129/332 attacks, 38.86%, estimated 80% damage reduction. Overall damage reduced = 30%
Koenig Shield (size 3): blocked 265/421 attacks, 62.95%, estimated 60% damage reduction. Overall damage reduced = 37.8%
Bulwark Shield (size 1): blocked 165/256 attacks, 64.45%, estimated 0% damage reduction. Overall damage reduced = 0%

Ignore the "estimated damage reduction" parts and insert whatever you think they are, as they were eyeballed. I think size 3s are closer to 50% per block, but it's tough to get good numbers on that.

Hmm, 20/40/60/80 would make sense for damage reduction amounts...

Wiki says that the def rating of the shield affects damage reduction, which seems unlikely to me, but perhaps Bulwark doesn't reduce damage at all because it is only Def:1.

If bucklers block so much already, do Aegis PLD really need any +Shield? Or doesn't it block as often as a buckler?

It's definitely not affected by the dmg rating on the shield. You'll get the same numbers with any size 1, 2, or 3 shield in the game. As for Aegis, that's actually what Woozie is testing right now. It's generally accepted that it procs at the same rate as a Kite shield with the damage reduction of a Tower, because the Aegis owners who actually pay attention and care about their relic have all reported that it procs like shit without skill, but I haven't seen any concrete tests done on it until Woozie's.

[superfob]

Oh wow, I've been wondering about the proc rates/damage mitigation of shields, thank Jebus for this thread.

I'm only PLD41 at the moment, but I've been curious about the merits of using a Buckler Earring myself...would it be that useful without other skill+ gear(or merits for that matter), or should I wait til I have PLD75 an a shield torque/gallant leggings before I purchase one? o.o

Buckler was pretty powerful for me (loltarupld) from about 35-high 40s (when my shield skill stopped capping when I leveled). I thought it was worth getting.

[Valyana]

I notice that the block rate difference between size 3 and 4 is 24%; it seems reasonable to extrapolate from that that moving up a size lowers block rate by 20-25%, but would definitely need more data to be at all confident of that.

[Valyana]

Apparently this was the source of the assertion that shield def value affects damage reduction amount: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html ... 2109938677

The OP's testing methods sound solid to me, he was shooting for def near mob att and used the mode values for blocked and unblocked hits to determine damage reduction.

[Neosutra]

Apparently this was the source of the assertion that shield def value affects damage reduction amount: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html ... 2109938677

The OP's testing methods sound solid to me, he was shooting for def near mob att and used the mode values for blocked and unblocked hits to determine damage reduction.

Thats actually some nice evidence, I didnt think to test difference between two of the same size shields, as Ive only ever compared different sizes.
It would also be nice to comfirm the following:

1. The block rate percentage range for each shield size (lowest to highest for each shield based on lvl difference between you and enemy, and amount of shield skill). I would assume there is a base average percentage for each shield size if your fighting same lvl mob, maxed by attaining a certain lvl of shield skill above their weapon skill lvl, but thats just an assumption.

2. What category Aegis falls into for block rate % (Does it block like a size 1,2,3?, and do you need the same amount of +sheild skill you need for other shields to reach the block rate cap on higher lvl mobs). It will be another month or two before i finish Aegis so not sure if anyone else can test this.

SE keeps releasing par or great gear for all my shield gear slots, so im forced to macro in shield gear just for when shadows are down, or when I dont need mp (have shadow mantle so lose 10 shield skill there, refresh from parade is nice but easily macrod out when shadows down, af+1 feet dont leave me when straight tanking but /nin I usually use relic/askar(when it drops). As for earring, i cant justify giving up 50 hp or any other good earring option I have for 3 skill (picked suppa).

Basically atm I just go with a fair amount of haste/emnity for /nin, with this as my ichi macro:

Kaiser Helm
AF+1 Feet
Shield Torque
Gives +25 shield skill, + 8 from merits = 33 shield skill, which gives me a decent chance of getting shadows back up, when added with 18% spell interupt (8 from merits, 10 from relic legs). For Ni casting i just macro in haste typically.

Standard Tanking gear:
/war
Kaiser head
beaver tail/Kaiser Shield
Ares Body, Valor for macro and when im fighting something weak or kiting.
Valor+1 hands
Shadow Mantle
Warewolf
Blood Legs or Valor
Af+1, valor macro for sentinal
Sattva/Herc, Ethereal/Cassie
Parade Gorget

/nin
Valor Head, macro in turban for ni, kaiser for ichi
valor body, pop on ares if need mp
beaver tail/kaiser
Cerb Mantle/ Shadow for Ichi
Swift/warewolf
0/??? on homam hands so stick with valor+1
Use valor legs for emnity, again 0/??? on homam legs.
Feet valor /macro in af+1for ichi.

Its hard to balance out refresh, damage mitigation, haste, emnity, hp, and still keep enough shield gear to not get your ass kicked. Which is pretty much why I walk around at 59/60 all the time. GIVE ME MORE INVENTORY SPACE SE!