Axe/Axe > Axe/Sword?

[Noob]

I've got Sword 8/8, Axe 8/8, and Great Axe 4/4 for merits, and use ME/Joy(have Suppa) in merits. For sky farming, I've always used either ME/Joy or Byakko's Axe(when we're SCing). Is their ever a situation to have Axe/Axe(ME/Juggy) available over ME/Joy, or because of my merits, would ME/Joy always do better in any DWing situation?

[Not Seditedi]

Probably be better off with Maneater/Juggernaut on some stuff.
Higher defense mobs such as Boss Chariots in Salvage and Kindred in Dynamis-Xarcabard come to mind.

[Ferien]

I'm Sword8 Axe1 w/ Suppa, and since I got my Brutal, I've noticed Woody/Man to be on par with or better than Man/Joy. I can only assume that Man/Jug would be even better, especially with your extra merits.

[Starr]

Wood/Man
Man/Joy
Man/Jugg
As far as I know, from parses shown on alla/KI, all parse within just a few % of each other anyway so use what you like, Man/Joy may take ahead of others on Birds (Piercing Weak) where Axe/Axe would be better for something like Genbu.

[Berdysh]

Man/Jugg was always stronger than Man/Joy for me back when I utilized dual-wield. Depends on your gear, though; Man/Joy can make up for a lack of haste gear, but if you're wearing W. Turban, Dusk Gloves, Byakko's, Swift/Speed, than Man/Jugg's probably going to come out on top, mainly in non-merit situations as well. While it probably only parses either equal or slightly above (like on trolls) Man/Joy in merits, I'd say it's the best overall weapon combo for a non-Ridill dual wield WAR to invest time/gil in.

[shaddix]

why do people even consider 1h setups for merits?

[Max™]

Because they still do well when geared for them?

What I wonder is, would Man/I.R. do better than Wood/Man.

[shaddix]

i have a merit pt in a bit but my war sold his axes!!!!!!

[Drunkenmonk]

Because they still do well when geared for them?

What I wonder is, would Man/I.R. do better than Wood/Man.

i've been wondering that too, IR seems like a poor man's juggy with a very nice delay

[eva00r]

Wood/Man (288+276)*.8 = 451.2 Delay
Man/IR (276+268)*.8 = 435.2 Delay

435.2/451.2 =~ 3.5% less delay

Best buyable price/performance combo, I believe.

[SassiAsura]

Pardon me for not being aware of this accronym. But what in the world is I.R.

[Valrath]

Pardon me for not being aware of this accronym. But what in the world is I.R.

Gonna assume Iron Ram Pick

[Valyana]

A while back I ran some numbers and found that in theory,

At 525 Attack on Greater Colibri, Maneater/Juggernaut is 0.25% better than Woodville's Axe/Maneater.
* At 409 Attack, 1.99% better.
* At 525 Attack on Kirin, 11.14% better.

[Aymee]

why do people even consider 1h setups for merits?

Is this supposed to be funny? Did I miss a joke of some sort? Are you being serious? I cry when I see war/nins with GAXes. Just... no. Go sub SAM like god intended. Go learn how to swap/switch and abuse hasso and third eye timers and realize you can actually defend yourself. Learn how to control yourself and don't WS on pull and get yourself killed (or, worse, waste mp). In other words, don't be a lazy bastard WAR and sub nin with that 2-hander because you refuse to learn how to use it properly. Are you THAT scared of getting hit and are THAT cocky you'll always pull hate so that you need the shadows? Oh please. Furthermore, without the StoreTP the gain is kinda pathetic, and a merit raging rush isn't really going to top a rampage on average.
There is absolutely no shame whatsoever in still using a dualwield setup. Most serious WARs have the right gear and merits for it, and it's not like its dmg was nerfed with the adjustments. It's the same as it was before, which was a totally fine DD for merit and most any purposes.

Actually, I'm tempted to just say you're being dumb. Unless you have Askar body so you can make a 6-hit with GAX, there's REALLY no shame in dualwield. Hell, I have the askar and fort torque and I still use /nin plenty of the time. Mind you, I loved /sam even before getting that stuff, but I'm just giddy when I get to use it now. 299 GAX with a 6-hit and perdu voulge (and a nyzul relic to come, when they implement it) is pretty sick.

Probably be better off with Maneater/Juggernaut on some stuff.
Higher defense mobs such as Boss Chariots in Salvage and Kindred in Dynamis-Xarcabard come to mind.

Having had 8axe 8sword for like 3 years now (converting to 8axe 8gax now, I think), I'm 100% on this statement. Trust your instinct--if you feel weaker/slower/whatever one way in whatever situation, just switch and test it out.

Axes <-> Axe/Joy is really interesting dmg theory for me since they end up so even in most situations--it's a total Catch22. You bet slightly faster TP for slightly less accuracy, more WS for lower WS avg. You know all this already. Seriously, it can be really situational. Food choice, your gear setup (if you're pure haste or use more acc(?)), if you might have a BRD, 2 BRDs, BRD+COR, what mob (i.e. piercing bonus on colibri and maybe spam cheap mithkabobs; vs assure your acc with the axes), blahblahblah. You know this.

For someone number-inclined such as myself, this Catch22 with all its complications are the sorts that are nervewracking because there's no short way to give a certain answer. I'll try anyway--

"Endgame Stuff": Axes
Merit: Situational on BRD and mobs--trial and error.
Any activity that lvl75 isn't really necessary for, or if you're goofing off: Probably man/joy.

In all cases, trust your gut, and experiment. Frankly, I don't think there's any good way to answer unless I saw your entire gear setup, your swaps, all your merits, etc. So I give up. Be a good WAR and carry all your weapons around at all times like SE wants you to, bring along some acc gear, and pack more than 1 type of food... you're set for anything.



Adding this--

At 525 Attack on Greater Colibri, Maneater/Juggernaut is 0.25% better than Woodville's Axe/Maneater.
* At 409 Attack, 1.99% better.
* At 525 Attack on Kirin, 11.14% better.

EDIT: I like completely missed the 'in theory' bit. Keeping the rest the same though.

That's not what I would have expected. Man/Jugg vs Wood/Man I'd expect to be close on colibri anyway, since you're counting on the +attk on the jugg to counter the dmg rating difference, and you're technically meritting on the highest-level things. The fact you got just +2% without the attk food would be an indication to me that the higher dmg rating shows itself with higher attack (duh).

...On kirin? Honestly I'm surprised. With the general weakness of 1-handeds on him, I had always been convinced that woods/man would be superior from the dmg rating alone, especially since you're using attk food (and thus the +30 on the jugg means less, as above). This sounds like a potentially complicated pDIF thing to test... could really come down to your gear or even your race (for a few more or less STR) if it could bring you into a different range or not.

I've never dual-axed kirin, so I can't counter with any of my own data. It'd take, well, a lot of kirins in order to get solid numbers on one vs the other with anything less than a +-10% margin of error so this would be hard to really test out.

[Pro]

Shit's situational. If you are packing haste gear, Man/Joy-Man/Ridill will definitely outparse double axes...in fact haste gear is the reason DW will shine.

Edit: To finish what I begun. Like I said, Shit's situational! It obviously depends on what you are fighting, but for quite a few instances, a haste DW build with a multi-hit sword will outdo double axes.

[Zanz L. Barre The 3rd]

I prefer WAR/SAM with GA for merits if you're every interested, but in terms of one-handed weps:

1. Man/Jugg without BRD (for whatever reason).
1. Man/ I.R. Pick with BRD
2. Man/Joyeuse
3. Wood/Man

Anyone fucking tired of the term, "Shit is situational"?

[Sanjiyan]

You can have a 6-hit with any 504dly g.axe when /SAM and using rajas, brutal earring, and chiv chain. Granted you have to use a chiv chain (unless you are using that g.axe with +1 store TP off Ullikummi) but compared to a PCC, I think the trade off of 5 acc to get 100TP a swing earlier is worth it. This is assuming no askar or torques. Actually even with a torque I think I'd stick to the chiv chain to maintain the 6-hit. It's just that nice.

As for man/IR or man/joy, I really don't know myself. Initially, because I worked hard getting my joy, I tended towards it. I couldn't spare any sword merits (all spent in H2H/evasion since MNK is my main) so I went 5/5 zerk/agg to make up for the lower accuracy. However now I have 4 sword merits (can't do 8 b/c gotta dump the rest into shield for my upcoming PLD) after they increased cap, at the same time refitted 5/5 zerk/agg to 4/4/2 for some DA (for g.axe).

In the end I think both are pretty equal unless you fully build towards 8 sword, at which point man/joy is slightly better albeit not much. Which one I end up using depends on my mood I suppose, but lately I've been /SAM. Haven't been /NIN in months.

[Talis]

Maneater/Perdu Hanger is still a reasonable combination as well, at least in situations where you're not forced to sit on TP.

+33 att, +10 acc with latents up. Not quite up there with juggy, but I'd take it over Man/I.R. (I'm talking endgame situations here where you're trying to boost your base att, not merits).

[Pro]

If you build around multi hit swords, they will most definitely outdo double axes. This is true, of course, only if you are built around the sword (8 sword, 8 axe, 5/5zergressor, Full Haste equip etc). Now if you aren't adequately geared for sword, then ya axes will top that for sure. :rocl:


So like i said. Shit's situational.

[Tricen]

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=23826&hilit=joyeuse

Was my thread I made a while back