RDM/NIN Tanking

[altwight]

I'm interested in RDM/NIN tanking. Here's basically what I've got down, tell me if I'm doing it wrong.

For spells: blind,bind,sleep,sleep2,dispel and paralyze I have +12 enmity equipped for cast.

After casting I switch to a gimp idle tanking set which basically just consist of Dalmatica and Duelist's Chapeau for refresh. However I plan on getting some -def% gear.

Basically just rotate nonstop between blind bind sleep sleep2 dispel para (not sure on para) and keep utsusemi/ss/haste/phalanx up.

Cure other players when I can and basically just spam the mob with spells the entire fight.

I took interest in this today and sorta successfully tanked Lil'Apkallu and Chigre. Lil'Apkallu went way smoother than Chigre did. Despite the hate reset from Apkallu I managed to tank it most of the time and was able to cure the DRG if he took hate. We low manned it with 4, RDM/NIN DRG BRD SCH.

Chigre was a different story. Person in charge of the runs wasn't so confident in my new found interest in RDM/NIN so he had a PLD/NIN come. For Chigre hate was everywhere the entire fight. I'm pretty sure everyone had capped hate.

Could any RDM/NIN tanks out there give me some advice on what gear they use for casting to hold hate and what their idle gear is. Also maybe a few starter NMs to tank to get the hang of it.

Summary:

Casting set for hate: +12 enmity spam blind,bind,sleep,sleep2,dispel maybe para?
Idle set: Dalmy + Duelist's Chapeau with -phy dmg% gear.
Cure people when you can.

[stewie]

On Chigre you hate decays basically instantaneously, there was nothing wrong with you, it's just how it's designed.

[altwight]

So basically I picked 2 tard NMs to start RDM/NIN tankin on to see how well I can hold hate.

[Eugene]

sleep/sleep2 ce
dispel ve/ce
poison/blind ve
around +20emnity should take you 2/3 rounds of sleeps and dispels to cap ce
as long as you dont get hit spam either blind or poison or both, fast recast, low mp cost, high ce. when you get hit do a round of sleeps.

you should not keep casting sleep when you dont need to, lots of mp.

once you get used to tanking, assuming your support is good you shouldn't idle in refresh so much. its useful on occasion but blinking alot tends to make angry support. 5 mp from refresh and ballad2 is enough to offset the poison spam, only when you start spamming cures on other people does your mp drop off alot.

[altwight]

Thanks, what's the difference in CE and VE hate wise. As for blinking my support is pwn, they're aware this isn't 2004.

[Eugene]

ic, i still have some ppl in ls that play on xbox etc. i don't know the exact numbers on ce and ve. please forgive me if not 100% correct.

ce = cumulative emnity does not degrade over time. only degrades when you are hit.
ve = volatile emnity, degrades over time. need to keep spamming ja/spells to keep at cap.

you need both ce and ve to reach hate cap.

[Raen Ryong]

CE
- harder to build
- deteriorates when you take damage (or a Utsusemi shadow disappears)
- cap is 10000

VE
- easy to build
- deteriorates at a rate of 60 VE / second, independent of any enmity+/-
- cap is 10000

Total enmity is the result of CE + VE and therefore it logically follows that the total enmity cap is 20000.

[Eugene]

honestly i find ve more annoying to keep rdm tanking. an occasional dispel, or round of sleeps if you get hit is enough to keep you at cap for ce.

[Raen Ryong]

Hmm, thinking about it RDM would find it easy to cap CE compared to other jobs (which is why they become hate magnets).

[Massimo]

sleep/sleep2 ce
dispel ve/ce
poison/blind ve
around +20emnity should take you 2/3 rounds of sleeps and dispels to cap ce
as long as you dont get hit spam either blind or poison or both, fast recast, low mp cost, high ce. when you get hit do a round of sleeps.

you should not keep casting sleep when you dont need to, lots of mp.

once you get used to tanking, assuming your support is good you shouldn't idle in refresh so much. its useful on occasion but blinking alot tends to make angry support. 5 mp from refresh and ballad2 is enough to offset the poison spam, only when you start spamming cures on other people does your mp drop off alot.

Both Dispel and Sleep is 320 CE/VE, Sleep II is 480 CE/VE, why are you listing them seperately?

Kanican - Enmity Table (RDM)

[Eugene]

oops mah bad.
either way, everything i said still stands, once you cap ce stop casting sleep, waste of mp.

[Ruuz]

Hmm, thinking about it RDM would find it easy to cap CE compared to other jobs (which is why they become hate magnets).

It's also why they make good tanks.

[altwight]

So I'm kinda familiar with VE hate, but how do paladins get CE hate?

also, what exactly does CE do

[Argettio]

So I'm kinda familiar with VE hate, but how do paladins get CE hate?

also, what exactly does CE do

With difficultly.

Flash gives some CE (180) and their cures can make some CE, that’s about it.

Also they will make a little from hitting whatever they are tanking.

[Ruuz]

Atonement should give CE

[rog]

Atonement should give CE

this. a pld that doesn't dd is extremely unlikely to even come close to capping ce before the mob dies.

[Sylvrdragon]

Also, Sentinel gives +100 Enmity (double the base value) so Sentinel + a couple Cure4s and other JAs can get em to cap pretty quickly.

[Ruuz]

this. a pld that doesn't dd is extremely unlikely to even come close to capping ce before the mob dies.

omg, rog quoted me.

/wetspants

[Dimmauk]

So basically I picked 2 tard NMs to start RDM/NIN tankin on to see how well I can hold hate.

Try to tank Marid ZNM too. LOL

[rog]

Also, Sentinel gives +100 Enmity (double the base value) so Sentinel + a couple Cure4s and other JAs can get em to cap pretty quickly.

if by a "couple" cure4s you mean 17 (1496mp), then sure. pld's JA don't give any ce.

omg, rog quoted me.

/wetspants

congrats?