Basic Enmity Tests (Primary Abilities)

**Grey Jorildyn** · 2011-08-16 21:11

Bracsith Sirrush and I took advantage of a non-raid night to go out and start generating some enmity numbers for basic abilities. I'll give a run through of how we came up with these numbers. Please note I have not written this very scientifically, but the raw data will be provided for trials to show how we narrowed down the enmity value for the few abilities we tested.

We only tested the "primary abilities" for generating hate. We have not done any spell or other ability testing. We focused on Provoke I/II, Taunt I/II, Warmonger, War Drum, and Accomplice.

What We Know
1.

Enmity is now a culmination of all actions taken in battle with one point of damage equalling one point of enmity.

Actions that contribute to enmity can be divided into two distinct groups:
1. damage and enfeeblement inflicted on the target
2. enhancement and healing granted to party members

Source - Patch 1.18 Notes

From this we assumed:
1 point of damage = 1 enmity

But further testing showed that:
1 point of cured HP = 0.75 enmity (Thanks to Kaeko Leta@Figaro)

2. Whatever is used to claim a monster generates 0 enmity. This one's important.

What We Confirmed About Enmity
1. There does not appear to be any deterioration of enmity over time.
2. There is no enmity lost when receiving damage.

We were able to confirm this more solidly later on, but it was a baseline observation we made at the start of the tests.

Setting Up
1. Each ability was tested on the main class, not cross-classed, to measure maximum enmity effectiveness. For example, when testing Provoke, Player A is on Gladiator.
2. No additional traits were equipped that could skew results.
3. No equipment was worn save for the weapon needed to change to a class.
4. All tests were performed on Iron Coblyns in Nanawa Mines Lv30-34.
5. All tests were performed on classes that were Rank 50.

Procedure
Player A would begin each battle with Emulate in order to load the mob's hate AI, followed by the ability to be tested. Damage would then be taken to generate a range of enmity values based on cures received from Player B to determined where hate was not pulled (minimum value) and then where the threshold was breached (maximum value). We used stoneskin in such a way to narrow the gap between these values in further trials.

What would occur is we would have a certain number, say 180, where hate was not pulled, but then the next cure, for say 64 HP, would pull. We could then determined that the value for a particular ability was somewhere between 180 and 244. So Player A would begin the next fight with 200 HP damage taken and a stoneskin on, then be cured, so on and so forth until we got that range very small and could confidently say that X ability generated Y enmity. We then took our guesstimated value and applied the 0.75 modifier to determine the true value. It was very simple and took us about 90mins to generate these few values after we got the hang of it.

The Values
Please note that these values were derived through testing when you were on the class that provides the ability. No cross-class stuff has been tested yet. The min/max values for each time we narrowed the gap have been provided in spoiler tags!

Provoke - 375 enmity

Spoiler: show

Provoke II - 405 enmity

Spoiler: show

Taunt - 270 enmity

Spoiler: show

Taunt II - 270 enmity

Spoiler: show

War Drum - 172.5 enmity

Spoiler: show

Warmonger - 240 enmity

Spoiler: show

Accomplice - 20% enmity transfer (it appears, MUCH further testing needs to be done).

Spoiler: show

Further Testing
Obviously this is a VERY basic test, and there's a whole spell library and plethora of other abilities that need to be looked at. I believe our values are spot-on but there may have been some error so please feel free to follow-up with your own testing.

Future testing should also include stuff like:
- Do AoE enmity abilities split their hate between all targets hit?
- What is the functionality of Warmonger's "Enmity is Increased." buff?
- Does level difference between players affect enmity values?

Have fun, hope this helps a bit.

**Kaeko** · 2011-08-16 21:31

Sent you some tells in game. I think I can help you out because all my numbers are different from yours.

**Kurokikaze** · 2011-08-16 22:14

Excellent info. Been meaning to do exactly this for a video but I've been busy lately. ;/

**Grey Jorildyn** · 2011-08-16 23:09

Updated OP.

Let's hope some other players come outta the woodwork so we can complete the spell library and other abilities.

**Kaeko** · 2011-08-16 23:57

Some of my #s are still off from yours even after the % cut we talked about in game Grey. I'll post everything I got tomorrow (would take too long tonight), but here are the values I have:

These formulas do not change with level of the player
Damage = enmity (1 for 1, this is the "base unit" of the XIV system)
roundup[(HP Cured) x 0.75] = cure enmity

These values DO change with the level of the player. The values below are at R50
Magic buffs and ~na spells = 9 (per target hit)
Self buffs (e.g. Profundity, Raging Strike) = 41
Obsess I/II = 81
Barbaric Yelp / Wardrum = 101
Poison I/II and Elemental Debuffs I/II = 41
All other Debuffs (e.g. Para, Blind) = 121
Disorient I / II = 242
Taunt I = 242
Taunt II = 282
Provoke I = 402
Provoke II = 442
Emulate = 159 (questionable)
Warmonger = 162 (questionable)

I agree on the Accomplice 20% value. I will also add it's 16% on another job and 18% on another job with Seasoned Vet. I do not know if there is a "cap" on the amount of enmity you can transfer in 1 use.

Chameleon only works if you currently do not have flashing red hate. It does nothing if you have hate. Still need testing on if you don't what it actually does but it certainly does shed enmity.

Hate Cap, if one exists, is above 12000.

No enmity loss from taking damage.

I will go over how the numbers were obtained tomorrow since there are a lot of details regarding rounding up vs. rounding down etc. I started writing the detailed posts on my blog but have gotten held up on certain parts of the testing. Going to just unprivate the first part now.

http://kanican.livejournal.com/54094.html

Good that Grey and I are on the same server for this, but if anyone has any other info we should just all collaborate in this thread I think.

**Grey Jorildyn** · 2011-08-17 00:17

Interesting.
More testing is needed! http://www.ausgamers.com/gameres/511...al2_shot20.jpg

**Cursive** · 2011-08-17 00:30

good to see some of this info finally out in the open!

**Burningthought** · 2011-08-17 05:01

Hey this might help you guys out:

Originally Posted by Famitsu

Enmity Algorithm

Famitsu: For cure or cure-ga type cure spells will the enmity be calculated by amount healed or number of players it healed?

Matsui: It will be by amount, at first instead of making individual spell adjustments I believe it’s better to make the rule clear so the didn’t discriminate cure and cure-ga.

Famitsu: Is there a cap to the enmity amount?

Matsui: This is the hard part but for now we’re not thinking of one. Also the enmity is calculated as 1 damage being 1 enmity.

Yoshida: With patch 1.18 the algorithm had major change. It’s not fun keeping the target once you have hate so in future adding abilities where you can reset your own hate or for long duration boss battles if the boss does certain action it resets everything, using simple structure would like to make something that requires thinking.

I found it on the official forums: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post286966

Not sure if it'll be any help, but figured what the hell might as well post it.

**Grey Jorildyn** · 2011-08-17 10:42

Helps but they didn't directly state that "1 HP cure = 1 enmity" unlike they did with damage. That cure enmity formula is the discrepency right now between values.

**Cursive** · 2011-08-17 11:02

kaeko will hit on this in more detail on his blog, but in his testing we found that curing for 1hp=1 hate point.

however, if you cure for say 100hp you only receive 75 hate points, indicating that 1hp is really equivalent to .75 hate points but since square's formula only deals with whole numbers the value is rounded.

**Grey Jorildyn** · 2011-08-17 11:19

That's why I adjusted my numbers by a factor 0.75, however mine are still off from his so I missed something I guess. On the right track though.

**Kaeko** · 2011-08-17 20:17

Since there are some differences in numbers I'll try to post a video sometime of how you can verify if #s are correct or not.

Basically when I was doing the values for various attacks they all ended up really weird (not factors of 5 or 10) and I questioned if they were even correct. So the verify I would have a mage class just auto-attack a Lv1 mob for ~700ish damage (won't kill it), then note the exact # of actions it takes to get hate back. So for instance, if 610 damage was done, I would count like this...

610 | 000 - Player 1 attacks Star Marmot for 603 damage
610 | 242 - Player 2 uses Disorient II (242)
610 | 363 - Player 2 uses Blind (121)
610 | 605 - Player 2 uses Disorient II (242)
610 | 611 - Player 2 uses Cure for 1 HP (1) and takes hate back on the 6th cure

If all values used were correct, then you could predict this occurrence. This is how I would periodically "spot-check" my values to make sure I wasn't veering off track, especially since these numbers are not "nice numbers."

**Sigmakan** · 2011-08-18 15:53

Its worth mentioning that warmonger seems to be an insta-hate ability. It only lasts for 10-20secs, but it will grab the mobs attention.

**oldoldman** · 2011-08-19 08:59

If there's no cap and it doesn't degrade over time tanking should be hella easy.

**Kurokikaze** · 2011-08-19 10:32

It is really easy. Getting initial agro is where people seem to screw up though.

**Kaeko** · 2011-08-19 13:57

Due to the lack of "Volatile Enmity" in XIV, the initial 15-30 seconds of hate control are probably where most players will mess up like Kuro mentioned. Tanking in the current 1.18b XIV is actually easier the longer the fight drags on since there is no decay for taking damage. In addition, the longer the fights go, the more enmity everyone in general accumulates, which makes every Accomplice you use stronger as time passes.

Another interesting topic I will bring up is that tanking is also easier AS YOU LEVEL. In XI, the enmity production of all moves was static, and the formulas for damage taken, damage dealt, and curing were dependent on your level. In essence the abilities are static and the cures/damages changed. This is the exact opposite in XIV - the damage/cure formulas are static and the abilities change with level. More testing:

Enmity generated from actions at Lv1 and Lv50 (sample tested)

Lv1 | Lv50 | Ability
002 | 009 | Magic party buffs and ~na line like Silena, Stoneskin (per target)
010 | 041 | Self target buffs like Raging Strike, Roaming Soul, etc
028 | 121 | Magic Debuffs like Slow, Gravity, Dia
056 | 242 | Disorient I/II
092 | 402 | Provoke I
101 | 442 | Provoke II

* the ability's optimum level plays no role in enmity change

From this little list using Provoke I as an example, at lv1 it's about 4x weaker than at Lv50. You can argue that at lower levels, you deal less damage / cure for less so it makes up for the weakness of ability enmity generation. However, this does not scale nearly to the degree that ability enmity generation is scaled at the moment.

This current phenomenon may account for at least some of the forum complaints regarding enmity on the SE main forums. The higher level players at 50 only experience tanking at 50 and hence feel the system isn't that difficult; however, the lower level players have to deal with much weaker hate generation from abilities that aren't adequately compensated by decreases in cure / damage amounts.

**********************

More data, specifically regarding attempting to find the "formula" that determines the amount of enmity generation of an ability at any level. Using Provoke II as the test ability since it generates the most enmity.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2179/enm.png

There are a lot of issues with the numbers that I don't really want to get into, but this can at least give a rough idea on how the enmity of abilities scales with level. It's for the most part a linear increase.

**Kaeko** · 2011-08-20 00:43

Started a table on my LJ with all the enmity values. Table is really large so I won't directly post it here.

http://kanican.livejournal.com/54373.html

I know we still have some discrepancy in some of the values. I'll try to post a video tomorrow to show why I think mine are right.

**Carraway** · 2011-08-20 01:52

Thanks for your work in testing and compiling this information. Looking forward to seeing how the devs tweak things in the future, if at all. Do you have a methodology in mind for testing Intimidation/Out of Sight and the +enmity/-enmity normal attacks?

**Kaeko** · 2011-08-20 03:03

The traits are +/-10% based on what I've seen. My "standard" test for looking at things I believe will turn out to be % gains is to use Provoke II since it generates the highest amount of enmity for a single non-cure ability. Based on that I got +/-10% increase/decrease, always rounded up. I'm really behind on posting the formal tests to show these things so it may take awhile to get those up on my LJ. I will probably post any findings early on BG and my lodestone blog first, then the formal test write-up will lag behind on my LJ.

**sceptre** · 2011-08-20 04:58

Awsome job compiling this list

Thanks =)

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