Philippines breaks from the US, partners with China

**Ksandra** · 2016-10-20 19:13

Things keep getting crazier and crazier, and I thought this worth a thread as I have so many questions:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ch...-idUSKCN12K0AS

I doubt this means much for the US, though I imagine us losing a base there sucks. No idea what Duterte expects from this. It's hard to understand how the Filipinos are feeling about this. Most of what I know is from article comments (lol), and surprisingly there seems to be huge support for him.

**Aerin** · 2016-10-20 19:27

Duterte is pretty batshit crazy though. I mean, this is the guy who's totally fine with killing people who are simply under suspicion of dealing/using drugs.

Originally Posted by Duterte

Hitler massacred 3 million Jews. Now there is 3 million, what is it, 3 million drug addicts (in the Philippines), there are ... I'd be happy to slaughter them. At least if Germany had Hitler, the Philippines would have (me). You know my victims, I would like (them) to be all criminals, to finish the problem of my country and save the next generation from perdition.

Such a nice guy. He didn't like that we had a problem with him possibly killing innocent people (not to mention not giving them any sort of trial) in his crusade against drugs.

**Ksandra** · 2016-10-20 19:31

Originally Posted by Aerin

Duterte is pretty batshit crazy though. I mean, this is the guy who's totally fine with killing people who are simply under suspicion of dealing/using drugs.

Such a nice guy. He didn't like that we had a problem with him possibly killing innocent people (not to mention not giving them any sort of trial) in his crusade against drugs.

That's what makes this mindboggling. Like first, dude flips just because Obama says he wants to talk about it, and the people actually are all like, "Yay he's killing our family and friends yay!" I feel like he's trying to work his way into being a dictator and they are all for it.

**Yuri-G** · 2016-10-20 19:31

I wonder if the Philippine people are content with him in the way my cat is content with me or the way North Koreans are content with Kim Jong Un, you know?

**Gredival** · 2016-10-20 19:40

Does anyone know how Aquino was perceived on his way out? This seems like a 180 in both competency and stance and I don't understand it.

**dasva** · 2016-10-20 19:41

Technically the base isn't ours right now they let us use it sometimes or something but yeah sucks still. Shit is crazy though. Like he was incredibly well liked but overall the country has always really liked America and been one of our strongest military allies. Most the polls I've seen on their views of America or Obama and such seem like basic opposite of what Duterte professes. Anyways maybe not much comes of it but it could. Tensions are already there between us and China and we've been what's the buzz word pivoting to Asia for a few years now. This kind of throws a wrench in that and almost feels cold war like with smaller states aligning between larger powers in tense political and military situations.

**thetruepandagod** · 2016-10-20 21:57

He's on a mission to prove zero tolerance drug policies work. We must let him continue for the sake of hypothetical scenarios and various statistics we can glean from this.

**Ezek** · 2016-10-20 23:35

From what I know the Phillipine people REALLY dislike drug users and it's a big reason as to why Duterte is still so popular despite everything he's done.

**Ksandra** · 2016-10-20 23:53

Originally Posted by Ezek

From what I know the Phillipine people REALLY dislike drug users and it's a big reason as to why Duterte is still so popular despite everything he's done.

This is very true, but I am wondering how they will feel in the coming days. I read an article that said that a survey taken not long ago in the Philippines put the US at 66 favorable and China like -10 or some shit. So I guess we'll see who they hate more: drug users or the Chinese.

**Guitarman** · 2016-10-21 00:13

Phillipinos generally love Americans; we're looked upon very highly. I can go over there and essentially get star treatment. (source: sister in law is from the Philippine, so now I have like, 30 people from there on my FB). I can't see this pivot away being taken too well. I'm intensely interested to know what local reporters are saying about this.

**Kincard** · 2016-10-21 10:17

Originally Posted by Ksandra

dude flips just because Obama says he wants to talk about it, and the people actually are all like, "Yay he's killing our family and friends yay!"

I think the perception there is sort of a "you don't understand how bad things really are" attitude.

As for why China, I'd venture a guess Duterte's playing balance of power. China has pretty strict drug laws itself (I heard they don't like opium very much), and a lot of the materials use in making drugs in the Phillipines (boilers etc) are from China. Being state capitalist, Chinese government can probably exercise a great amount of control of what will be shipping out which will help Duterte's drug war- and given that China has basically 0 other friends in SEA right now (Except I guess like Brunei or some shit) if they're smart they'll probably do plenty to please their newfound ally.

China also agreed to "allow" Filipino fishermen access to the Scarborough Shoal, which to me just means it's effectively the same it belonging to The Phillipines but "officially" it makes it seem like it belongs to China, and China loves saving face.

Also while I'm sure most Filipinos have a positive impression of Americans, the history there isn't exactly all rosy so I don't think it would be too hard to inspire some anti-America nationalist sentiment there.

**Gryffes** · 2016-10-21 10:22

Originally Posted by Kincard

China has pretty strict drug laws itself (I heard they don't like opium very much),

China fucking loves opium, and we have the receipts to prove it.

**Roranora** · 2016-10-21 10:25

I think Duterte is popular enough he can flip Filipino favorability of the US.

Copying over my post from before Ksan birthed a Duterte thread:

Originally Posted by Roranora

There's a lot to Duterte. But yeah he doesn't love the US, and he's a popular president at home.

He used to be mayor of Davao City (where his kin are now mayor/vice-mayor), and we covertly evacuated an operative from a hospital who blew his leg off in an accidental explosion before Duterte and his people could interrogate. Duterte was livid, and won't let it go, even though this guy died back in like 2006/2008(?). He was the Death Squad Mayor even back then. He rolled into a restaurant with a revolver and made a tourist eat his cigarette butt. (Smoking only in designated areas). The guy swears by summary executions and plainclothes assassins. He's nonchalant about collateral damage in the form of innocent children. He curses and talks shit on Brobama. I don't see how our relationship can do anything but deteriorate while he is president.

Here's a WaPo article from last month with more Duterte history if anyone's interested.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...9b1_story.html

**synistar** · 2016-10-21 10:40

It also doesn't help that whenever the West denounces him for lack of due process, he doubles down. I have two relatives currently rotting in jail because their names appeared on the hit lists. They didn't want to get murdered in their sleep. Shit is a warzone.

Also the way elections are ran in the Philippines, only a plurality of votes is needed to gain the presidency and there are no run-offs. He got the perfect storm to rise to power. Now he denounces any political rival by labeling them as pro-cartel, pretty much ending his rivals careers and/or lives. Parents believe he won't last through his term and there will be another revolution a few years down the line.

**Gredival** · 2016-10-21 21:56

Originally Posted by synistar

It also doesn't help that whenever the West denounces him for lack of due process, he doubles down. I have two relatives currently rotting in jail because their names appeared on the hit lists. They didn't want to get murdered in their sleep. Shit is a warzone.

Also the way elections are ran in the Philippines, only a plurality of votes is needed to gain the presidency and there are no run-offs. He got the perfect storm to rise to power. Now he denounces any political rival by labeling them as pro-cartel, pretty much ending his rivals careers and/or lives. Parents believe he won't last through his term and there will be another revolution a few years down the line.

What was the political situation before his rise? I understand that it was a perfect storm that allowed him to rise (i.e. he succeeded because of a divided opposition the same way Trump got through a crowded field), but my understanding is that the Aquino name is still well respected. Did he screw up really badly at the end or...?

**Roranora** · 2016-10-22 12:48

He was alright I guess. Definitely had his critics and definitely wasn't his mom. I think it's more about Duterte and now than it is Aquino and anything then.

I read more about Aquino's presidency last night because of this question; I'll try to reply more thoroughly after work.

**Boyiee** · 2016-10-22 13:46

Think we're going to vacation in boracay at the end of 2017 or sometime in 18. Probably still worth it even if we don't make it back.

**myreality** · 2016-10-23 12:16

Wrong thread.

Leave me alone! I have yet to have my coffee.

**Marootsoobutsu** · 2016-10-23 12:44

Originally Posted by Ksandra

Things keep getting crazier and crazier, and I thought this worth a thread as I have so many questions:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ch...-idUSKCN12K0AS

I doubt this means much for the US, though I imagine us losing a base there sucks. No idea what Duterte expects from this. It's hard to understand how the Filipinos are feeling about this. Most of what I know is from article comments (lol), and surprisingly there seems to be huge support for him.

Other than the US, I've lived in the Philippines longer than anywhere else, and while that was 17 years ago, I still regularly keep in touch with a lot of folks there, and feelings regarding the US are... complicated. Like, really complicated in ways that don't make sense in America.

Filipino cultural norms don't adhere to so many Western ideals of consistency-- that South African video in the PC Principal thread is very much a familiar feeling.

On the one hand, even today, there is an enormous gratitude among many in the Philippines toward good ol' Doug MacArthur. His promise that he'd return, and that he fulfilled it, resonates with a power that America's short memory really can't comprehend. Their perception American culture is, in so many ways, worshiped... like, think the Texas Patriot kind of 'MURICA! style worship of their perception of America, except their idea of us is... off.

On the other hand, there's both an inferiority complex that grates at the country, and while it's not just in relation to the US-- when the Christians acknowledge it, they spin it as a positive ("We're the Mexicans of Asia. We can get jobs and go into any Asian country that no one else can get into" is an exact quote I heard in 3 provinces). But when it comes to the US, a lot of folks have a feeling of resentment-- not only has the US not helped the Philippines become an international powerhouse in spite decades upon decades of loyalty, they've been repaid with an American base that's provide rapists and abusers, and a *ton* of young men who have been scorned in favor of Americans. Think our whole "Friend Zone" nice-guys-finish-last dudes who think women owe them, mix in nationalistic overtones, and magnify it.

*THEN* you add in long-standing worry from terrorism and communists, a hatred of drugs that would make Reagan go, "Dudes, maybe chill a little", and lingering overtones from the Spanish occupation more than a century ago that filter through with every bit as much resentment as it does in Central America, and it's probably the hardest culture to understand that I've ever experienced. I met people who hated me *vehemently* because I was American, and wanted me to marry their daughter... like, straight up offered me money if I'd marry her. The best friend I made while I was there gave 1 sermon every month with calls against whites in Asia that earned me looks that genuinely made me afraid for my health, and then the congregation, 30 minutes later, was having a feast where I was treated like part of the family.

I never tried to delve into Filipino politics while I was there, and I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to really navigate those waters. It's not that they are an irrational people-- or at least no more so or less so than any other group of people. It's just that their history is filled with so many contradictions that how any one person interprets those contradictions is up in the air.

With all of THAT said... feelings toward America are most mixed in Manila. In the northern provinces, America is much more loved; in the southern provinces, more likely to be hated.

There's literally nothing the Philippines could do that would surprise me.

**Twilight Sky** · 2016-10-23 12:50

Well, he better get ready when/if China decides they want it part of the country. They don't take no for an answer. Ask Taiwan about that. He clearly wears his emotions on his sleeves(and it didn't help that Obama pissed him off). But he thinks he's gaining an ally in Russia and China.

Thread: Philippines breaks from the US, partners with China

Thread Tools

Philippines breaks from the US, partners with China

Latest Threads

Up & Coming Threads

Hottest Threads