Monster Data

Masamune · 2011-04-09 04:57

This thread would reserved to mostly determination of Monster families/subfamilies Stats, but data on Monster abilities could be reported here too.

Why monster Stats are needed ?
- VIT and Defense are used for calculating physical damage.
- AGI and Evasion are used for ponderating averages physical damage. AGI is also used to calculate critical HitRate.
- INT is used for calculating Magic damage and some elemental WeaponSkills having an fINT component. INT may also be used for Magic Accuracy(to be tested).
- MND is used same as for INT but for Divine nukes damage/accuracy and elemental WSs having a dMND component.
- Monster MainJob or SubJob determines if they have DefenseBonus, MagicDefenseBonus, EvasionBonus job traits, which are used in each of the 4 steps above.

Currently known datas are :

- Formulas for STAT (VIT, AGI, INT or MND) :

Spoiler: show

- Formulas for Defense and Evasion :

Spoiler: show

Alongside the above formulas, different methods can be used to cross-check in game and calculated results to achieve a "PERFECT MATCH !" on a monster's stat rank. Also, cross-checking between methods is a good idea, especially when one method yields multiple possible solutions.

Spoiler: show

- Methods for Defense :

Method 1: Attack /checks on at least 2 lvls of same mob family, ideally 3 lvls in each expansion areas, especially if their "skin" changes.
Mob's lowest level MUST be above lvl60, since i discovered some weird non matching results within same family while ALL other subspecies matched the determined ranks, just because that particular tested mob were below lvl60...
Also be careful with jobtraits ! if you test using a job having AttackBonus, you have to add those bonuses to the formulas below.
Formulas used :
- Mob stays "Low Defense" with Z attack Minimum: Defense=FLOOR((Z-1)/1.25)
- Mob stays "High Defense" with W attack Maximum: Defense=W+1

- Methods for Evasion:

Method 2: Same as for Defense but with Accuracy /checks.
Be careful if you test using a job having AccuracyBonus, you have to add those bonuses to the formulas below.
Formulas used :
- Mob stays "Low Evasion" with (X gear accuracy and DEX) Minimum: Evasion=IF(Skill>200;200+FLOOR(0.9*(Skill-200));Skill)+FLOOR(DEX/2)+X-10
- Mob stays "High Evasion" with (Y gear accuracy and DEX) Maximum: Evasion=IF(Skill>200;200+FLOOR(0.9*(Skill-200));Skill)+FLOOR(DEX/2)+Y+31

- Methods for VIT :

Method 3: using formula for STAT + checked Defense value obtained from Method1, backcalculate playing with stat ranks for Race, (guess the correct job/subjob) until get a perfect match for all calculated def values for each tested levels.
Method 4: using ranged attack damage and backcalculating damage formulas until the fSTR function => VIT get ! Take Care with Distance affecting RangedAttack can skew results.

- Methods for AGI :

Method 5 : Same as for Method3, but using checked Evasion from Method2.
Method 6 : using a ranged WS having an AGI% MOD, but have to WS @ 300% if "Damage varies with TP" and at a constant distance.

- Methods for INT and MdB :

Method 7: nuking... already explained on wikipedia.
Method 8: Elemental WS having an uncapped fINT component, like Sanguine Blade (which also has a static fTP at any TP%, so can WS @ either 101%, 105% or 149% doesnot matter). An elementalWS with INT% as MOD can work also, but since most of them have "Damage varies with TP", you have to WS always @ 300% (trying to hit exact 100% is harder than it looks)

For both methods, best to use highest nukes/stat mods + MaB equipments + HQ staves if applicable, so to give the least possible combos for (INT;MdB).

- Method 9 for MND and MdB :

Just check How to calculate magic damage on wiki, on Divine spells, its so simple a child can understand.
Same as for INT methods, best to use highest nukes like Holy or Banish3.
I don't know any ElementalWS with a dMND, but maybe one exists ?

- Method for CHR:

Use Mysterious Light or Eyes On Me. Similar to using regular nukes, but base damage is calculated differently, and will increase as CHR is added.

Formula is (((level+2)+WSC)*fTP)+(dCHR*M) * (staff/day/resist/MAB in the usual order), floor at every step.

Mysterious Light has a WSC of 30% CHR, fTP is 31/16, and M is 1.0. Note that the level+2 part caps at 57 for this spell. Soft cap on dCHR is 60, after which it has half the effect (theoretically until 180 dCHR, at which point it should have no more effect).

Eyes On Me has a WSC of 40% CHR, fTP is 2.625, M is 1.5, dCHR caps unknown.

And finally, stat ranks determined should be stored in a table i've set up @ Googlesheets.com in "Tools" tab, and also input under "Data" tab your /checks numbers, in case one would need to verify later on.

Masamune · 2011-04-09 09:49

In practice, i follow those steps :

1. Choose a family whose Stat Ranks are unknown.
2. Check on wiki the list of mobs distribution among areas, and select 1 in original or RoZ areas, + 1 in ToAU areas, and 1 in WotG areas.
3. I go in 1 of those areas as THF/nin or BLU/nin(without accubonus/attackbonus traits), with a wide variety of attack/accuracy - or + gears.
4. I start with Method1 and HighDef /check on one mob, far enough to avoid aggro, but close enough to avoid losing target.
5. Spam attack checks until get W attack value -> Def value.
6. Still on same mob, get Z attack value from checking LowDef value -> verify previously determined Def value.
7. Still on same mob, method2: get X accuracy value with LowEva /check -> add your dex to get Evasion.
8. Cross-check with Y accuracy value for HighEva /check -> verify previously determined Evasion.
9. KILL the mob, that's important before going to another mob, to avoid mixing results with another level. During this step, check carefully if you notice any Double Attack, TripleAttack, Counter, etc.. and write your observation(s).
10. with exp obtained, check on experience points wiki table which level corresponds.
11. Write all those results (including W, X, Y, Z, attack, accuracy and DEX values) on a paper, labeled with the Level.

... repeat with next mob having a different HighEva /check (since you'll be still with same gears from last /checks), until you get all levels in area tested.

12. go to next area chosen @ step 2. Repeat Steps 4->11. Same on last area. Takes about 1-2hours for checking 3 levels in 3 different areas and i'm <slowga> lol.

13. With all those combos (Level;Defense;Evasion) results in hand (for original, ToAU and WotG areas), i go to Googlesheets.com where a tool regrouping all STAT, def and eva formulas will help me determine wanted stat ranks and jobs. Same for INT/MND/MdB.

How to use that tool ?
a. Input all the tested levels.
b. Input all the checked Defense values, under corresponding Level column.
c. Input all the checked Evasion values, under corresponding Level column.
d. Choose from dropdownlists 1 & 2 the MainJob and Subjob you think are correct at 1st guess.
e. Play with dropdownlists 3 and 5 (resp. VIT and Def Ranks) until you get a perfect match for ALL inputted levels.
f. Same process for evasion : play with dropdownlists 4 & 6.

If no combo (VIT, Def) AND (AGI, Eva) ranks matching ALL inputted results can be found, then start to change to another MainJob/SubJob combo, keeping in mind the observation(s) you made @ Step 9. ie you know that mob have WAR as either Main or Sub since observed Double attacks; or you know have to use MNK or /mnk if counters/KickAttacks have been observed; or THF main if triple attacks observed; etc...

In last resort, if despite tried all ranks for all possible Main/Sub combos, 2 things can be done :
- recheck your results, and see if any inaccuracy shows up, usually there is a 5 difference in def/eva values between levels. Verify also if had any Attackbonus or AccuracyBonus jobtraits by mistake...
- repeat steps a to f using the 7th and 8th cells (ie Race Def/eva Bonus) to "accomodate" your closest (Main/Subjob/VITrank/AGIrank/DefRank/EvaRank) combo in such way to get perfect matching def/eva for all inputted levels.

So far, i always found matching Stat ranks without having to rely on those last 2 parameters, but it happened to make mistakes during the /checks process, i just come back to the area and recheck again.

Masamune · 2011-04-09 10:09

While testing Sanguine Blade mods, i found Lesser Colibris @ wajaom woodlands have a MdB=12%. That implies that MdB comes from their MAINJob=RDM, since Lcolis have lvl65 max, their assumed rdm subjob would have lvl32 max, while MdB tierII is available at rdm lvl45.
That leaves only sub to play with to find a suitable subjob matching that "+20 evasion" inaccuracy: either /pup /thf (or /dnc but i doubt since dnc job didnot exist @ toau times)
Another combo to check would be /whm, but then MainJob can't be THF (or Lcolis would triple attacks), leaving only PUP/whm to test ? (sound plausible since some colibris mimics

)
edit: no match at all for pup/whm...

Tested Colis lvl71,72,73 with SanguineBlade => MdB still = 12%. INT=88,88,89 resp. (A IntRaceRank, for RDM/rdm)

I just won't bother and keep RDM/rdm but added a +20 evasion bonus RACE Trait

**Yugl** · 2011-04-09 11:09

This is great stuff. it might be helpful to make a second thread in advanced and keep this thread for the method/editing. That way people can participate even if they cannot access the math section.

Masamune · 2011-04-20 04:56

Complete example with Crawler Family, which include 3 different "skins" recognizable to their color (Yellow, Green and Red).

Jobs used (for evasion /checks):
BLU90/nin45(no spells set) BaseDEX=73 SwordSkill=370 ClubSkill=302
THF90/nin45 BaseDEX=84 DaggerSkill=362 ClubSkill=255

Champion Crawlers (Yellow) @ RolamberryFields[S]

Spoiler: show

Deforester (Green) @ Aydeewa Subterrane

Spoiler: show

Processionaire (Yellow) @ The Boyadha Tree

Spoiler: show

Scoriaceous Eruca (Red) @ Mount Zhayolm

Spoiler: show

Then after playing with various job/subjob combinations (knowing they all double attacks), i ended up with following stat ranks with perfect matching all above eva/def checks :
WAR/war
VIT C
AGI E
DEF E
EVA C

Note for calculations: WAR gets job trait Def Bonus II @ lvl86.

Note2: no difference between each sub-species. Can match all their stats with same stat ranks and job/subjob.

Note3: i got enormous def inaccuracies while checking Date Erucas @ Bhaflau Thickets, like if they had 5+ levels above their exp checks. It wasnot Fireday when i checked ... I have no clue why those don't match other crawlers at all o.O (their evasion match tough)

Note4: still missing INT and MND checks, should be "INT D" and 0% MDB.

Note5: a counter-example can be found under "Data" tab @ Googlesheets.com with Raptors (Blue @ original areas and Green at ToAU areas): Blue ones don't have same job as Green ones.

Note6: an example of "unsolved" case can also be found with Great Birds family, even tough they all have same skin and JAs/spells across all areas where can find them, noone found matching common Job/SubJob & stat ranks for all of them.

Masamune · 2011-04-20 08:07

Posted link to the tools for conveniently get stat ranks @ Googlesheets.com, and also containing the table needing to be filled (there are still a lot of races with blank unknown stat ranks).

Don't hesitate to post any errors with the tool, as i'm not sure if Googlesheets.com converted Excel formulas correctly.

**Yugl** · 2011-04-26 00:14

Worms @ Gustaberg 11INT tested using Leafstorm.

Masamune · 2011-04-26 07:08

Mmmm interesting: i rmember Worms have a weird job/subjob combo and also 2 subspecie (maybe a 3rd exist ?). the ones at Uleg for example don't match at all stat ranks of those in original areas.

**Yugl** · 2011-04-28 16:20

Masamune, what are you using for finding MDB? MDT should be easily detectable using T3 SCs unless the mob is incredibly resistant to magic. Once I get a method for testing MDB, I can use leafstorm to test the INT of various mobs.

Masamune · 2011-04-29 12:19

Simple: when Job or Sub is set to rdm or whm, the stat rank formula includes corresponding mdb tier depending on the job or sub levels (highest prevailing).

Regarding MDT, i think this concept is "fake", as i think mobs don't use "equipement". I would rather use a "Racial MDB" instead of MDT, inherent to the racial family. Like for example Colibri Family gets an inherent "Race evasion Boost +20" or Mamools getsting "Racial evasion boost +10".
That means if you can't find matching numbers even with setting WHM as main job, might consider trying additional "Race MDB" which will add to the ratio (MAB/TotalMDB) where TotalMDB=JoborSub'sMDB + RaceMDB.
When i'll have time, i'll try to re-test those mobs known to get some "MDT" to convert that into "Racial MDB", as a simple % number like "Job MDB".

**Radec** · 2011-04-29 12:41

You should be able to test for MDB vs MDT - Vidohunir lowers MDB by 10, so a +25MDB mob (100/(125-10)) should give different results than a -20% MDT mob (100/(100-10) * 0.8).

(yes, 25 and 20 - 100/125 = 100*(1-0.2))

Edit: Now that I think about it, I haven't see proof that Vido is -10MDB instead of +10% Magic Damage Taken - in either case there should be a point with a difference

Masamune · 2011-04-29 15:08

Originally Posted by Radec

You should be able to test for MDB vs MDT - Vidohunir lowers MDB by 10, so a +25MDB mob (100/(125-10)) should give different results than a -20% MDT mob (100/(100-10) * 0.8).

(yes, 25 and 20 - 100/125 = 100*(1-0.2))

Edit: Now that I think about it, I haven't see proof that Vido is -10MDB instead of +10% Magic Damage Taken - in either case there should be a point with a difference

Nice idea there ! and indeed where are Vidohunir tests ? reminds me to unlock this WS :S

**Yugl** · 2011-05-08 16:29

EM Mandies at Abyssea-Tahrongi have INT=62

Stats:
BLU/RDM
No Elemental Staff
Like 3? pieces of gear
Kirin Atma + Cruor buffs
MAB in gear = 6
Before you freak out, MAB=130 is just 30MAB

Code:

STAT     Leafstorm   Thermal   CW
STR      124         124       124
DEX      113         113       113
VIT      124         124       124
INT      158         158       158
MAB      130         130       130
Result   689         984       1016

Method:
1. Divide the number by (130/100) since I had 24MAB from traits and 6MAB in gear
2. I ASSUMED no other multipliers in between
3. Since the WSC*fTP portion doesn't depend on mob stat, calculate that and subtract it from the number remaining after (Step 1) division; that leaves dINT*2
4. Divide by 2 to get dINT
5. Subtract dINT from INT
6. Mob INT=62

Perhaps people we more information can see if this gives us better insight into the mob stats in Abyssea.

**Byrthnoth** · 2011-05-08 20:57

Masa, how confident are you of your prediction of AGI=72 for 76/77 Hpmedes in this post?
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/687...=1#post3204151

The Hpmede I'm beating has 307 Evasion, as predicted. I have two characters with 78 DEX and 65 STR, and they're both hitting for 0. I'm trying to do Feather Step testing and would rather lean upon previous testing than run a proper control.

Masamune · 2011-05-09 10:13

Originally Posted by Byrthnoth

Masa, how confident are you of your prediction of AGI=72 for 76/77 Hpmedes in this post?
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/687...=1#post3204151

The Hpmede I'm beating has 307 Evasion, as predicted. I have two characters with 78 DEX and 65 STR, and they're both hitting for 0. I'm trying to do Feather Step testing and would rather lean upon previous testing than run a proper control.

The post is old i don't remember but i read "Take care i didnot verify with checks". Means those values are calculated as unverified predictions.
But you said the Hpemde you beating is lvl77 and indeed checked as having 307 eva, as predicted.
Since the predicted evasion is calculated with functions taking LVL(known) as parameter, then add the AGI calculated itself also function of LVL, can be fairly confident in the AGI value predicted.
Otherwise if AGI predicted were wrong, the resulting predicted eva wouldnot be 307 for LVL77 DRG/drg mob.

**Byrthnoth** · 2011-05-09 10:25

Originally Posted by Masamune

The post is old i don't remember but i read "Take care i didnot verify with checks". Means those values are calculated as unverified predictions.
But you said the Hpemde you beating is lvl77 and indeed checked as having 307 eva, as predicted.
Since the predicted evasion is calculated with functions taking LVL(known) as parameter, then add the AGI calculated itself also function of LVL, can be fairly confident in the AGI value predicted.
Otherwise if AGI predicted were wrong, the resulting predicted eva wouldnot be 307 for LVL77 DRG/drg mob.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's right. I got the same crit rates under the same conditions for 86,90,and 91 DEX (14,18,19 dDEX).

It leaves me wondering how level 5 Bewildered Daze turns into +4% crit rate without AF3+2 feet or +7% crit rate with AF3+2 feet. The only thing I can think of is to invoke SE's fondness for making the first step more potent. If it's exactly like the other steps, it would be:
No shoes: 4/3, 6/3, 8/3, 10/3, 12/3, or effectively 1%, 2%, 2%, 3%, 4%
AF3+2: 14/6, 21/6, 28/6, 35/6, 42/6, or effectively 2%, 3%, 4%, 5%, 7%
If I'm willing to admit SE is trying to add fractional crit rates though, then it doesn't have to end at a flat number.

Level 1 and 2 Feather Step I may test some day, but not 3 and 4. That won't happen any time soon unless all the new content falls flat though.

**Yugl** · 2011-05-13 17:34

Masamune, if I ran around getting INT values without recollection of the XP they give, would that help or is the XP value pertinent?

Masamune · 2011-05-14 03:29

XP value is must have indeed, since INT value is calculated using functions depending of Level.

So yes knowing both observed INT and Level(from exp) allows to back-calculate the Race inherent rank for INT, ie A B C etc...

**Fwahm** · 2011-05-15 22:36

Monsters indeed can have a MDT- trait separate from MDB. Spells like Drain and Aspir are completely unaffected by MDB, since they ignore the MAB/MDB part of the formula, but monsters like weapons and pots take reduced damage from them.

**Yugl** · 2011-05-31 04:27

EP Geier 39XP 64INT. Tested using Leafstorm.

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