Ideal Ninjutsu:San Merits

[Kattice]

I've researched the :san merits and found they have GREAT potentional to deal damage and assist groups (and myself). Only problem is, I want to make sure they work. I need to merit only 2 and want them to be useful.


Should I do Suiton: San and Huton: San for lowering resistance to Thunder and Ice?

Or would a Raiton: San (for Hojo: Ni and other earth spells) and Doton: San (for lowering resist to wind based spells) prove more effective?

Basically it comes down to this:

Assist BLMs or assist myself and RDMs. San has no difference in damage based on wheel its only a matter of which would be more useful in more end-game conditions.

[aurik]

1) wrong forum
2) san ninjutsu provides the same resistance penalty as ni ninjutsu and takes twice as long to cast

[Septimus]

Move'd!

P.S. I thought the general consensus from the hardcore Ninjas was that the San spells suck?

[aurik]

yup, its a waste of merits.

[Kattice]

San is better because it allows for 12 secs of the penalty base.

The whole point is still the same. Would I be using this for BLM on burst or RDMs to help control the mob? Ni while nice cannot even come close on the damage and burst-ability of san.

[Khamsin]

Most things that can be enfeebled without Elemental Seal or 10+ tries can be enfeebled in the first cast or two even with a heavy MND build. Most things that can't be enfeebled without Elemental Seal or 10+ tries probably won't suddenly become easy to land with ninjutsu resistance debuffs. Maybe it might allow your RDMs to save a little MP by landing a full MND build slow/para first try instead of second or third on certain HNMs, but other than that I doubt it'll make a big enough difference to center your merits around.

And by ES debuffing, I'm referring to Khimaira who is gonna be a bitch to enfeeble either way. We even have our BRDs sub BLM to Troubador+ES Elegy him. I suppose it could be useful on wyrms that don't want to be elegy'd at the moment.

[Kattice]

Ya. I'm looking for a good way to assist in any possible way for these. Since they are merits that I will actually use. I just want to make the choice early and stick with two for both set of merits.

Similar to BLM with their Thunder and Ice domination in both merits. You can have all tier 2 or you can have 2 really good tier 2. I believe the same when it comes to my Ninjutsu on this matter. Seeking to do it now is all.

[aurik]

San is better because it allows for 12 secs of the penalty base.

The whole point is still the same. Would I be using this for BLM on burst or RDMs to help control the mob? Ni while nice cannot even come close on the damage and burst-ability of san.

1) 12 seconds instead of 10 seconds, it's a pretty minor difference, and costs twice the casting time.
2) nobody cares how much your elemental justu is landing for; for damage purposes katanas are a better use of your time post-60.

[Suiram]

I've come to the belief lately that resistance-down spells like threnodies and elemental ninjitsus are underrated, or at least that I had underrated their value up until recently. Not so much for Khimaira, but definitely for other fights where most BLMs will just stack as much skill as they can like CoP wyrms and Bahamut, the difference between a threnodied mob seems more pronounced in terms of resist rates than stacking all of my elemental skill gear (and as you can see from my signature, I have almost all of the skill gear available to me should I choose) vs. less skill and more damage or -enmity. If you intend to keep a mob debuffed to a particular element for fights with BLMs as primary damage, I think it's a good idea, it will give your well-geared BLMs more versatility, and it will help your poorly-geared BLMs significantly. I can't speak to how they affect resist rates on enfeebling magic, but I'd imagine it'd have a similarly significant effect.

(The idea behind my endorsement here being that you would need all 3 tiers of Ninjitsu to keep a mob constantly debuffed to a particular element due to the fixed durations and recast timers of the spells.)

[Ehran]

I've found it a good practice to regularly debuff whatever it is that you're fighting. More often than not, I focus on sticking a debuff before a magic burst. Most RDM won't wait for your help before they start to enfeeble, and the good ones won't really need it. Still, in duo or merit parties I can still make my RDM buddy feel better about his nukes when I land ninjitsu before hand.

If you're seriously considering meriting San spells, you might as well go Raiton and Hyoton to burst off of light or dark to help your enmity >.> Debuffing is much more efficient if you stick with Ni spells simply because of the casting time, as Aurik mentioned.

[Stellar]

I'd stick with tool expertise, then save merits for another job. I capped raiton: san thinking the 5 macc and matb looked pretty promising, but looks were decieving.

As far as debuffing a certain element, as far as I know jutsu's give the mob you're fighting the same amount of TP as a real nuke, which would probably add up pretty quickly if you're trying to keep that element constantly debuffed. As long as you don't mind the mob getting TP a bit quicker than it's alright I guess.

[aurik]

Yes, 10tp given per ninjutsu nuke, which is then adjusted for subtle blow.

[Sci]

The San line is pretty much a huge waste in general. The casting time is too long and the TP given is too high. If you're all gung ho about debuffing to elements, Ni ninjutsus will suffice. Cast right before MBs to see pretty good results.

What I never heard is if the JA Sange generates any hate on its own. Even if it's a small amount, it might be worth meritting for another hate building tool. I just meritted tool expertise and I enjoy not running out of tools as fast. It lowers the times where I try to cast Utsusemi and I can't because I have to use a toolbag >.>;

[SassiAsura]

Sange + recycle(or whatever the ninja equiv. is called)!

[Alastaire]

Just skimmed through, but yeah, as a long time NIN, basically what everyone else said; the "ideal Ninjutsu: San merits" are to have none at all.

[Litium]

Last I heard the lower resistance from the elemental ninjitsu s is only good for the next spell cast on the mob/player.

Best use I've gotten out of San spells is for kill shots in ballista.