Magic, Weapons, and Skill Levels

[riddaraan]

I wanted to discuss something that's been in my head for a couple years, and hear what you guys think. With all the speculations about WotG coming out, and such, I figured, what's the harm in asking?

Do you think that spells & weapons should be dictated by "Skill level" before meeting the requirement to learn? Right now, as things stand, magic & weapons are "equipable" because you meet a level requirement. However, I was thinking how interesting it would be to see instead "skill level" requirements. I'll give an example, just for clarity. Please forgive me if my numbers are wrong.

Right now, Flash is available for Paladins at 37. Let's say, for instance, that a Paladin's Divine Magic skill cap at that level is 130. Well, why not make it so that in order to learn Flash, your Divine Magic skill must be 120, and simply take away the normal level restriction.

A better example - although a bit ludicrous - would be Refresh. Red Mages earn this at Lv41. But what if, instead, it required a skill level of 130 Enhancing Magic.

Now I know what you're saying. "White Mages and Paladins with Refresh!?! Are you crazy!" Well, of course, the most obvious answer would be to continue the existance of the job requirement on a spell. So, Refresh's requirements would be something like: "RDM - Enhancing 170". That way, if a Paladin or White Mage subbed Red Mage, they'd have access to it.

Now, let's say, for our example, that a BLM/RDM has 120 capped Enhancing skill. Well, of course, they wouldn't gain access to Refresh, because they wouldn't meet the skill level requirement. However, if they had meritted Enhancing Magic by 5 points, then they'd meet the 130 skill requirement, and thus, gain access to it.

Anyway, it was just a thought, a couple years ago, and I've never really posed it before. I was thinking a similar train of thought for weapons, although, I think you get my idea. I sort of thought this up, probably in a dream, while thinking, "Why do spells become automatic at a level, but Weapon Skills do not?"

Sorry for the random topic. I'm bored at work, dreaming of time travel and Chocobos.

[Yuri-G]

Interesting thought, but most Paladins skill up Divine solely by using Flash once they get it, and most Red Mages (well, myself anyway) skill up Enhancing merely by Regen/Refresh/Haste on their party members. People would be stuck spamming lower-level spells until they could use the higher-level ones, and that just doesn't sit right with me. Weapons would be a different story, although I still think being able to use a weapon appropriate to my level when working on a neglected skill (say, dagger on my RDM) is more fun than having to start from the bottom and work my way up. Being able to equip shiny new gear the moment you hit the next level is also something I wouldn't want to do away with.

I do like the idea that subjobs could be enhanced via meriting the main job this way, that's pretty neat. Although the Refresh idea would not work, because I'm a RDM main and it's our spell, damnit

[riddaraan]

While I agree with you that it would be quite a pain in the ass, in most instances, it still seems to make more sense to me. Also, consider that if this sort of thing was how things were, then it would be very interesting to see how SE might release weapons & spells geared specifically for people with max merits in their respective skill.

[HadesBothari]

So like RDM/BLM with chainspell AM/AGA3/T4 and convert!! Nice!
Or DRG/RDM with Refresh (and cure breath 200-400hp cure for 6mp)?

or BLU/RDM with Refresh+autorefresh
etc...

Nah..

Edited the nin part out
Edit: also DRG/SAM with Osode/Byakko pants/hauby+1s or /WAR with adaman.. we wouldn't lol anymore!
Edit: would <> wouldn't

[Damane]

for skill lvls 1-276 it would be a pain to get certain spells that are needed (refresh flash comes to mind). But it would be a nice idea to add new lvl 75 spells that require some kind of minimu skill to be cast. just for example maybe lets say meteor demanding a skill of 305 element magic skill to be castable or so.

[SephYuyX]

I think it's way to late to implement something like that. Anyone who has been 75 for awhile will have capped or close to capped skills. It would just hinder newer people. Its not a totally bad idea, but it's too late.

However, above poster brings up an interesting point, in order to use 'new spells' if they were to ever come out, you would have to equip certian skill gear to obtain it.. it's interesting, not really sure if it would be good or bad.

[Yuri-G]

While I agree with you that it would be quite a pain in the ass, in most instances, it still seems to make more sense to me. Also, consider that if this sort of thing was how things were, then it would be very interesting to see how SE might release weapons & spells geared specifically for people with max merits in their respective skill.

I do like that idea, and the one posed directly above, where certain pieces of gear/spells are only available to people with maxed skill. Maybe even maxed skill + merits + gear. I'm thinking specifically of Elemental and Enfeebling skills here, since from what I hear, they become pointless past a certain level due to minimizing your resist rate. A setup like this would make that maximized skill set-up worthwhile again.

[riddaraan]

I forgot about Chainspell AM .... lol

Well, still, as people seem to like the 75 + skill level idea, perhaps we could send in a suggestion to SE! Or maybe I'll corner Sundi at FanFest and talk him into it!

[Septimus]

I forgot about Chainspell AM .... lol

Septimus: Holy crap guys! I'll save us!
Septimus uses Chainspell!
Septimus casts Burst!
Ultimate Crab takes 25 points of damage.
Septimus casts Burst!
Ultimate Crab takes 10 points of damage.
Septimus uses Convert!
Septimus casts Cure 4.
Septimus gains 390 HP.
Septimus casts Burst!
Ultimate Crab takes 50 points of damage.
Septimus casts Burst!
Ultimate Crab takes 5 points of damage.
Septimus: Oh crap.

[Eanae]

While I like the concept, I really don't believe that it will work in the way Final Fantasy is set up. Especially in the face of Flash with paladin, all other divine skills that Paladin can use are pretty much useless in any situation, meaning that divine skill will be pretty gimp at all levels until you'd ultimately have to go out of the way to skill up divine to be able to use flash. The current system avoids this, and in my opinion, is better.

[Celebrindor]

Here's an even more fun possibility. A 75 PLD/RDM would have access to Cure IV, Haste, Refresh, Pro4/Shell4, Enspells, Phalanx, Stoneskin, and have access to +9MP/tic with sanction refresh. (pld job trait, refresh spell, ares body, parade gorget, hercules ring, bahlrahn's ring, sanction refresh- very true this is an extreme example, but just to show what is possible.


Come to think of it.....that could be fun. ^^

[Jeryhn]

Anyway, it was just a thought, a couple years ago, and I've never really posed it before. I was thinking a similar train of thought for weapons, although, I think you get my idea. I sort of thought this up, probably in a dream, while thinking, "Why do spells become automatic at a level, but Weapon Skills do not?"

Because the use of magic is considered an ability of a particular job. A white mage has the ability to learn and use white magic.
Instead of relating weaponskills to magic, you should relate magic to job abilities, which are also acquired on a level-by-level basis.

However, something that would be interesting is the inclusion of brand new spells that are based upon your skill level, and are not learned through the use of a scroll.

[Altanass]

i thought before that job adjustments would mean making skill levels more relevant, at the time that summoning skill was changed slightly i thought that SE would change others too.

when i read the info on scholar, and read that with white grimoire, healing/enhancing are increased, led me thinking why care to state that healing skill increases, you can cure anyway.... unless skill gear will become important, so for the heck of it i bought some skill torques and skill earrings, and other odds and ends, ya never know what SE will do~

[evilpaul]

I bought some Yowie skins hoping that earth weather spell is pre-37 (and /Scholar gives Gravity) making Dersert Boots the new Gaiters. :D

I was thinking that maybe Grimoires give sizable boost in magic accuracy so subbed offensive magic skills can actually land a useable percentage of the time. If SE makes Cure spells useless subbed I'll be pretty pissed.

[Stelaereous]

This is a horrible idea. It is way too late to add this to the game. This would be game-breaking in so many way.s

[Celebrindor]

I bought some Yowie skins hoping that earth weather spell is pre-37 (and /Scholar gives Gravity) making Dersert Boots the new Gaiters. :D

I was thinking that maybe Grimoires give sizable boost in magic accuracy so subbed offensive magic skills can actually land a useable percentage of the time. If SE makes Cure spells useless subbed I'll be pretty pissed.

Completely off topic (ok not completely, but close enough), I still am in awe that SE specifically mentions "A White Mage subbing Scholar will be able to reliably land Aspir and Drain". Aspir and Drain without BLM subjob and thus no native Dark Magic Skill clearly shows how powerful /SCH or SCH main could be.