Fort. Axe DRK Zerg... Sword Strap?

[Dioma]

Would it be worth using a sword strap or pole strap for DRK Zerg setup.
As of now I have 20% haste (Homam Hands, Feet, Legs, W. Turban, Gloom Breastplate, V. Belt), combined with 10% Hasso, 15% DB, and I guess whatever the Soul Voice Marches + Haste Calculation is (What is the calculation for this?) So, how much haste would sword strap add and would it be worth using it rather than pole strap? Or would using Fort. Axe be silly and just go with Rune Chopper?

[evilpaul]

Fort Axe would be better just because that thing is like a Hundred Fists GA with a Haste build + the regular spell. As for the other questions, idk.

[Lyramion]

Sword strap and Haste dont add up. So sword strap would give you 3% more DoT basically - no increased broken Haste.

[Churchill]

Well assuming you have the same gear as me, because I'm currently missing Homam legs for DRK...

15% Haste
SVxMar/Mar
Haste spell
Hasso
Sword Strap
Desperate Blowsx3
---
Each melee round is 1.4s

If you take away Hasso, each melee round is 2.2s. It's a good cheapy way to Zerg. (By the way, having Homam Legs and speed belt only increasing the first example to 1.1s a round, but hey that's still 3/10ths faster.)


EDIT: Oh to answer the question, in no actual setup after activating Hasso does -3% weapon delay affect the overall delay/round. If you are subbing /NIN, I'd use it. If you're subbing /SAM, I'd use something that gives you some HP.

[Capo]

sword strap wouldnt give a huge bonus like 3% haste would when you have stacked haste, but its the best strap to use for SEBW zerging (3% from sword vs ~2% from pole). the extra 5% haste you would get from using rune chopper would probably reduce your delay enough(93.3% vs 88.3%) to negate the extra swings from fort.axe. it also frees up the ranged slot, and you can swap one of your homam pieces for something for more hp or acc as haste will be capped without it anyway. the rune chopper will also be hitting slightly harder which plays a small factor

edit: i didnt know about hasso stopping sword strap from working, if this is true then pole strap will be the best option, unless you have less than 1k hp but this is unlikely

[Not Kuno]

Desperate Blows only works for Scythe.

[Churchill]

Desperate Blows only works for Scythe.

k

edit: i didnt know about hasso stopping sword strap from working, if this is true then pole strap will be the best option, unless you have less than 1k hp but this is unlikely

It doesn't stop it from working, but after factoring in hasso to ffxicalculator I didn't actually lower the delay by any tenths of a second. If you take Hasso off it generally lowers it by 0.1.

[Starr]

Desperate Blows only works for Scythe.

huh?

[Not Kuno]

Desperate Blows only works for Scythe.

huh?

It doesn't work for GS when I used it. I would assume it doesn't work for GA either.

[bblazeuk]

If you read the description in game, it says it lowers delay for all 2handed weapons, if it was just scythe 93.3% haste with rune chopper would not be possible.

[Not Kuno]

It says 2h weapons but I never saw a speed increase when I used it with Algol or any other GS. I don't know what Rune thing you're talking about.

[chapstick]

Um... Rune chopper. +9% Haste. Great axe. Used for zerging sometimes.

[Belkin]

Desperate Blows only works for Scythe.

Hah

[RKenshin]

I'm still not sure where/how the -delay from sword strap is counted, but the general consensus seems to be it doesn't help you go past 93.3% and that it doesn't stack on Desperate Blows(?).

If the above is true... You're better off using Rune Chopper since you're short of the 93.3% haste by too much (5%). And, obviously, you would use Pole Strap with Rune Chopper since you'd hit the reduction cap anyway. Doing some quick math you should get about 60 swings in 30s with Rune at 93.3% haste, versus 30 swings with Fortitude at 88.3 % haste. It's safe to assume fortitude attacks 1.5 times on average, so that'd put you at 45, which is still short of Rune Chopper.

Desperate Blows does indeed work for all 2h weapons too.

[Hakamaru]

I'm still not sure where/how the -delay from sword strap is counted, but the general consensus seems to be it doesn't help you go past 93.3% and that it doesn't stack on Desperate Blows(?).

If the above is true... You're better off using Rune Chopper since you're short of the 93.3% haste by too much (5%). And, obviously, you would use Pole Strap with Rune Chopper since you'd hit the reduction cap anyway. Doing some quick math you should get about 60 swings in 30s with Rune at 93.3% haste, versus 30 swings with Fortitude at 88.3 % haste. It's safe to assume fortitude attacks 1.5 times on average, so that'd put you at 45, which is still short of Rune Chopper.

Desperate Blows does indeed work for all 2h weapons too.

Here's a question. Once desperate blows drops off at the 30s mark, would you be better off switching over to Fortitude since you just lost 15% of your stacked haste?


Chopper :
93.3 - 15(desp blows) = 78.3% haste.

Delay = (1.0 - 0.783) * 504 ~= 109

(30 frames/s) / (109 frames/swing) = 0.2752 swings/s


Fortitude :
88.3 - 15(desp blows) = 73.3% haste

Delay = (1.0 - 0.733) * 504 ~= 135

(30 frames/s) / (135 frames/swing) = 0.2222 swings/s

multiply for 1.5 to account for multi-hits => 1.5 * 0.2222 = 0.3333 swings/s


So it looks like the best thing to do is swap over to Fort Axe (or potentially BZ) after Desperate Blows drops at the 30s mark since it buys you roughly 20% more swings per second.

[Not Kuno]

Desperate Blows does indeed work for all 2h weapons too.

Is this a recent change? I've used it with GS and others Ive talked to noticed it didn't swing any faster.

[Hakamaru]

Desperate Blows does indeed work for all 2h weapons too.

Is this a recent change? I've used it with GS and others Ive talked to noticed it didn't swing any faster.

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=s0hxpi-P688

Not sure how you're testing it... you probably can't eye-ball 15% haste on swing speed unless you start stacking it with a lot more other forms of haste. Go grab a BRD and a RDM or WHM, then sub SAM for hasso. If you use a haste belt and have really good haste gear, you can come within 1% of capping out swing speed without even making the BRD soul voice. Apoc users can cap out swing speed completely without soul voice.

Edit : Guess I didn't answer your question. It's always worked with 2-handed weapons if I'm not mistaken.

[Churchill]

I know my DRK when using LR attacks faster than my WAR which gains considerably more haste. Using Algol btw.

[Kirschy]

Desperate Blows is tough to see with small/regular amounts of haste, as is Hasso or even the haste spell. It only becomes noticable (and increadibly powerful) at very high amounts of haste. It does work on other 2H weapons for sure. (Unless you have a large amount of Equipment Haste + March x2 + Hasso... Desperate Blows isn't very visual... this is why I always discounted the ability as being any useful.) Sword strap is delay reduction and takes place before any haste occurs. To give an example on Rune Chopper:

Rune Chopper Delay-504

Using Sword Strap without any haste reduces the delay by 3% - ~488 Delay (About 3% Haste)

Using 90% in Attack Delay Haste (alone) - 50.4 Delay
Using 90% + Sword Strap - 48.8 Delay

The delay reduction becomes almost negligable.

[RKenshin]

^ Thanks for the clarification on that, was always unsure.

Desperate Blows does indeed work for all 2h weapons too.

Is this a recent change? I've used it with GS and others Ive talked to noticed it didn't swing any faster.

As Kirchy and Haka said it's just hard to notice, but it's always been this way. It might just have more to do with the different animations for GS and Scythe making the effects of haste appear to be more obvious with one as opposed to the other. I know that with about the same delay Scythe appears to swing a lot faster than GK. Actually, of all the 2h weapons GK seems to always look the slowest for swinging.

So it looks like the best thing to do is swap over to Fort Axe (or potentially BZ) after Desperate Blows drops at the 30s mark since it buys you roughly 20% more swings per second.

Yep. Once Desperate Blows wears off you're best to get with a multi-hit weapon.