Anti-charm gear vs Frogs and LAC

[Koyangi]

Sorry in advanced if this has been discussed and/or a dead horse.

Has anyone used the Locket (and any barspells(if the element of Frog Song has been determined), and/or any combination of approriate elemental resist gear) to try to resist/counter Frog Song or Brainjack, or is it not possible?

[Spekkio]

honestly, i'd be scared to use resist charm gear vs the frogs. if you're going the DoT and all charm method we usually use, everyone's gathered in tight formation on the frog. if 1 person uncharms significantly before the rest, they're going to get zerged into oblivion. meanwhile, i could see resist charm gear working well vs LAC.

the locket iirc is supposed to have a fairly significant impact on reduction of charm duration, but i'd like to defer to someone with more experience for confirmation. another notable and easy to obtain resist charm piece is the unyeilding ring. from my experience with the insomnia earring, the resist effect on it is very acute. i wake up significantly before everyone else when wearing it, and since i'm a mage (obviosuly if i'm wearing MP...) i can quickly shoot a cure off to wake others well and good before they'd time out and wake up. while this hardly constitutes proof of the ring's effectiveness, with the low cost of it (about 3 salvages) and the potentially valuable effect, it may be worth examining. if you really want to be crazy, you could try to get a volunteer's earring from Mythril Mouth Monmaq too, but that's probably horribly excessive.

[Ferien]

I'm not sure if it would work vs a frog (or if you would want it to, as Spekkio mentioned), but it would probably do pretty well against LAC. One of our WHMs managed to resist Brainjack on Tuesday, which I thought was impossible, without any Charm resist gear at all (it also dropped 2x Ea's Brais...coincidence!?!?!??!??)

It would be really easy to test if they have any effect on frogs at all. Frog Chorus lasts for a full minute for everyone hit, so if anyone uncharms early, there's your resist. I have a feeling that it won't, but it definitely wouldn't hurt to try.

[Neosutra]

Anti Charm gear does work for LAC, as does Fealty(fealty makes you totally immune to Brain Jack).

[mdkuser]

I tried the locket on LAC back a few months ago, didn't work lol.

[Wizerd]

Resist charm gear doesn't appear to work on Madames. Like someone said, it's a one minute duration, and that's that.

[BerenTebogo]

Is there an element to brainjack that we can bar to help resist charm? Or a known element to charm?

[Suiram]

I know that this thread is about resisting charm, but it should be mentioned I think that just avoiding charm seems to me to be the best way to handle LAC. Others posted about it a long time ago here, but I only got good at it a few months ago when we were spamming it to finish a few usu feet. You can run a circuit around the entire room, and most of the time he stops and uses discharge or inertia stream with nobody in range (unless someone is inadvisably running alongside it) and the occasional time he'll attempt to brainjack, you get "Suiram is too far away." Each WS stuns him for a moment, giving you a chance to put some distance between you and LAC when maneuvering around the corners.

This is with myself on BLU/NIN, at the top of the hate list when MNKs are charmed since I spend all of boss fights curing. But you could feasibly have one MNK get enough distance after the first one is charmed to pull off something similar if you keep both erased, or if you have a RDM and WHM as backline have the WHM come /NIN or something (just to stand there for a couple attack rounds after charm until MNK gets hate back).

[Shassira]

I posted some time ago about a way of handling LAC with a single pet job and a common setup (MNK, DD, BST frontline); since then i've refined it and unless some really shitty stuff happens, you'll get to hold LAC with your pet on all charms. It's even possible to do it with the same pet without actualy having to use Call Beast (Which means you can keep the timer for "oh shit!" situations), due to the latest Stay patch and the Shepherd's Drink you'll most likely get in SS.

Last time we did this we did it with 8 people (effectively 7 in the fight, since the thf does not do anything there). Way i see this, it's the best way to handle LAC if you have the extra slot. It's much better than kitting around; LAC doesn't even move from the spot and your mages can rest without worry (as long as they are out of hate gaining range).

As for charm resistance, i believe one of our tanks tried that at some point and noticed no effect that was worth mentioning. Either way, even if you resisted charm itself, LAC spams it for almost a minute, so it's unlikely you'll resist all unless you use Fealty.

[Kylen]

I posted some time ago about a way of handling LAC with a single pet job and a common setup (MNK, DD, BST frontline); since then i've refined it and unless some really shitty stuff happens, you'll get to hold LAC with your pet on all charms. It's even possible to do it with the same pet without actualy having to use Call Beast (Which means you can keep the timer for "oh shit!" situations), due to the latest Stay patch and the Shepherd's Drink you'll most likely get in SS.

Could this be done with 2 SMN's? I was going to have 2 of the outside members in our first Silver Seas run this weekend come BLM, but now I'm wondering if having them both come SMN would be more useful for the boss, since no one in our group has any +movement speed gear or much experience kiting.

[Ferien]

I posted some time ago about a way of handling LAC with a single pet job and a common setup (MNK, DD, BST frontline); since then i've refined it and unless some really shitty stuff happens, you'll get to hold LAC with your pet on all charms. It's even possible to do it with the same pet without actualy having to use Call Beast (Which means you can keep the timer for "oh shit!" situations), due to the latest Stay patch and the Shepherd's Drink you'll most likely get in SS.

Could this be done with 2 SMN's? I was going to have 2 of the outside members in our first Silver Seas run this weekend come BLM, but now I'm wondering if having them both come SMN would be more useful for the boss, since no one in our group has any +movement speed gear or much experience kiting.

You don't need +movement to kite LAC, due to the fact that it'll keep stopping to try to use TP moves, as Suiram mentioned.

That being said, yes, it would work with 2 SMNs. Pets can't be charmed, so as long as the avatars are near the top of the hate list (right under the tanks) you can hold it in one place until the Charms wear off and it stops jacking. It might actually be easier to do with 2 SMNs, since there will be a backup out in case the first one is killed by the tanks. I don't have much experience with this method though, as the only SMN I've been with did something wrong and didn't get enough hate on LAC for it to work.

[Wizerd]

In all the times we've done LAC, I've never seen him stop to try and use Discharge or Stream when in Brainjack mode.. he just catches up to the next person quickly and Brainjacks them. I've outrun it a couple times with Skadi's Feet, but not without movement+, and we do know how to kite.

We used to use the SMN x2 method of holding it, but now we just bring 1 since it only needs to last long enough for Brainjacking to end, it doesn't have to hold it the entire time we're charmed. The Brainjacking is what, maybe 20 seconds? Then another 30-40 of people being charmed, and with COR+BRD buffs it's very easy for us to get hate back.

[Ferien]

In all the times we've done LAC, I've never seen him stop to try and use Discharge or Stream when in Brainjack mode.. he just catches up to the next person quickly and Brainjacks them. I've outrun it a couple times with Skadi's Feet, but not without movement+, and we do know how to kite.

We used to use the SMN x2 method of holding it, but now we just bring 1 since it only needs to last long enough for Brainjacking to end, it doesn't have to hold it the entire time we're charmed. The Brainjacking is what, maybe 20 seconds? Then another 30-40 of people being charmed, and with COR+BRD buffs it's very easy for us to get hate back.

Try kiting it differently? In my experience, he'll constantly try to spam Inertia or Discharge if someone's too far away to Jack. In our last fight, he Jacked our MNK and myself, chased our WHM, bound him, hit him a few times, and then tried to Jack but got resisted (which was nice, because he was down to 40 HP from getting smacked around). No one in my group has movement+ (except myself, but I'm never on PLD) so it's certainly kitable without it.

[Seditedi]

In all the times we've done LAC, I've never seen him stop to try and use Discharge or Stream when in Brainjack mode.. he just catches up to the next person quickly and Brainjacks them. I've outrun it a couple times with Skadi's Feet, but not without movement+, and we do know how to kite.

We used to use the SMN x2 method of holding it, but now we just bring 1 since it only needs to last long enough for Brainjacking to end, it doesn't have to hold it the entire time we're charmed. The Brainjacking is what, maybe 20 seconds? Then another 30-40 of people being charmed, and with COR+BRD buffs it's very easy for us to get hate back.

Your kiters must not know how to kite then lol.
Not being a dick, but every single time I've killed it, it has ALWAYS used Discharge/Inertia Stream during a jack phase.

[Aemora]

Our Mages (more than Melee) know perfectly how to kite because I think they do it so often, lol. And none of us have Gaiters. Rdms have CLegs tho...

Whm kites the best, in an indented oval shape around the outskirt of the room, and she always kites during Brainjack mode, or whenever I go Blm then I generally do it too. Once Tanks are uncharmed, whoever is kiting runs to the Tanks once they've buffed themselves and they get hate before she dies npnpnpnp.

LAC is easssssssssssy, and fun.

Frogs can just go eat dick. 4/3 on Drops though kekeke. (lolus)

[Bakthi]

For those who have a SMN hold LAC during Brainjack, what does your SMN do? Just assault the avatar and use BPs? Which avatar? And what if it gets paralyzed, which seems likely (or would something like Shiva resist the paralyze effect)?

Sorry if these questions seem, well, basic. But my SMN is 13, and I prefer to have all the information instead of relying on me telling the SMN to "just get hate". We still have issues kiting at times, and since we have a SMN along for tomorrow's LAC I wouldn't mind trying it that way.

[Suiram]

In all the times we've done LAC, I've never seen him stop to try and use Discharge or Stream when in Brainjack mode.. he just catches up to the next person quickly and Brainjacks them. I've outrun it a couple times with Skadi's Feet, but not without movement+, and we do know how to kite.

We used to use the SMN x2 method of holding it, but now we just bring 1 since it only needs to last long enough for Brainjacking to end, it doesn't have to hold it the entire time we're charmed. The Brainjacking is what, maybe 20 seconds? Then another 30-40 of people being charmed, and with COR+BRD buffs it's very easy for us to get hate back.

Your kiters must not know how to kite then lol.
Not being a dick, but every single time I've killed it, it has ALWAYS used Discharge/Inertia Stream during a jack phase.

Kiting LAC does feel different from kiting other things, and I've kited quite a few things in my day. Even though it sounds simple enough, my problem at first--and what I think is probably Wizerd's problem--is that you don't maintain the distance between him that you would for some other mob that you are trying to negotiate around a similarly-shaped room. You need to always be a little bit further ahead than you think you would need to be, like to where you would think he'd cut you off at the corners rather than follow around but he doesn't, and usually stops and does discharge/inertia stream. I usually get a head start when he turns to face the MNKs--not sure the exact distance but probably about max casting range--then when both MNKs are charmed, the moment he moves an inch I take off along the circuit as though he was right on me. After I see him ready discharge/inertia/brainjack, I stop for a minute at that distance, wait until he starts to move again just like the first time, and resume. Once he stops using TP and the MNKs start uncharming I just stand there and hold him until they get hate back.

It's still easy to make a mistake, I probably get charmed once every three fights or so (9~15 brainjack sessions).

[Wizerd]

In all the times we've done LAC, I've never seen him stop to try and use Discharge or Stream when in Brainjack mode.. he just catches up to the next person quickly and Brainjacks them. I've outrun it a couple times with Skadi's Feet, but not without movement+, and we do know how to kite.

We used to use the SMN x2 method of holding it, but now we just bring 1 since it only needs to last long enough for Brainjacking to end, it doesn't have to hold it the entire time we're charmed. The Brainjacking is what, maybe 20 seconds? Then another 30-40 of people being charmed, and with COR+BRD buffs it's very easy for us to get hate back.

Your kiters must not know how to kite then lol.
Not being a dick, but every single time I've killed it, it has ALWAYS used Discharge/Inertia Stream during a jack phase.

Kiting LAC does feel different from kiting other things, and I've kited quite a few things in my day. Even though it sounds simple enough, my problem at first--and what I think is probably Wizerd's problem--is that you don't maintain the distance between him that you would for some other mob that you are trying to negotiate around a similarly-shaped room. You need to always be a little bit further ahead than you think you would need to be, like to where you would think he'd cut you off at the corners rather than follow around but he doesn't, and usually stops and does discharge/inertia stream. I usually get a head start when he turns to face the MNKs--not sure the exact distance but probably about max casting range--then when both MNKs are charmed, the moment he moves an inch I take off along the circuit as though he was right on me. After I see him ready discharge/inertia/brainjack, I stop for a minute at that distance, wait until he starts to move again just like the first time, and resume. Once he stops using TP and the MNKs start uncharming I just stand there and hold him until they get hate back.

It's still easy to make a mistake, I probably get charmed once every three fights or so (9~15 brainjack sessions).

What still boggles my mind is that even during a brainjack session when I do manage to outrun him on THF, he won't use Stream or Discharge at all, to slow down. He'll catch right up, use Brainjack and I'll be too far away, then he'll try again.

If it behaves like any other mob, it requires someone to be in that 10' range in order to ready it, even if they aren't in range when actually goes off. This seems to be what you described - being in range (barely) of the move as it tries to ready it, then being out of range a second later when it does go off. Whereas when I (or my kiters) am kiting, it'll catch up before it tries to ready a move again, so we're apparently not maintaining the proper distance.

Once Tanks are uncharmed, whoever is kiting runs to the Tanks once they've buffed themselves and they get hate before she dies npnpnpnp.

Maybe, but LAC still hits like a motherfucking truck on a mage.

LAC is still the hardest of the 4 chariots by my book, taking a full 15min due to charms / getting hate back, etc. Armored Chariot is second hardest at about 11-12 minutes, Mortal Rev hurts like hell after a double attack. LBC nerfed is third hardest, and Battleclad Chariot is easiest, because he hits so weak and has such low defense.

I don't really count LBC unnerfed because we don't do him like that anymore, too many bad experiences. <_<

[Shassira]

Hey, maybe i fight a different LAC than the rest of the people that bother to kite him, but i've never seen LAC try to do any TP move after a charm phase unless... you know... he has TP? And that only happens if he starts charming before using his TP or if he's under TP regen effect. I've stood there to watch LAC hit CorrierCarry almost to death (she survives if she starts at full HP) and not see a single TP move from it. And he's getting TP not only from his hits but also for CC's melee.

So yeah, i think we fight different mobs. At least i'm case, he doesn't "always try to use a TP move". This happens only after the TP regen phase and really, at this point LAC's gonna do one charm phase at most because you will likely rush it to death here.

I'm not gonna say my group knows how to kite (not the same as Wizerd's), we probably have no idea at all and we probably suck at kitting, but the thing is we don't need to kite normaly and we almost never see LAC using any TP move on CC.

As for LAC's difficulty, it's a matter of personal views. It can be very hard if the charm is not controlled as well as easy after you've fight it a couple times. Saying it's "easy" is missleading though. It's easy for your group (and my group ) because we have experience with it, but when you have experience in this game anything is easy. I always say, it's all about planning. I believe that people should try to measure their words in accordance to whom they are speaking to. If you are giving advice to a newbie group that does not know how to handle this already, then you shouldn't label LAC as "easy" because it is not. I'd even go as far as saying it's the hardest charriot to handle for new groups, being Armored Charriot the easiest one.

[Aemora]

LBC > AC > LAC > BCC

Hardest > Weakest (imo, or at least the experiences we've had)