Alexandrite Split in Pickup Runs

[Suiram]

I'm making this post to solicit people's opinions on what (if any) would be a fair allotment of extra alexandrites to ask for in pickup Salvage runs when not looking to lot any of the armor drops. I have a static that runs twice a week that has a few more pieces yet to get (stupid Silv drop rate) and in there we just split alexandrite drops equally among everyone, which is fine, but the other days of the week if I salvage at all it's as a fill-in for other groups or in pickup runs with search comment lotting rules, and as someone who doesn't need any armor from salvage, I'm trying to decide what is a fair cut of alexandrites to ask to be able to seacom, if any at all.

The most obvious idea at first would be just to ask for them all, or split between the people who picked alexandrites instead of armor in seacom, but after thinking about it some that felt disproportionately beneficial to me, and pretty clearly contradicted my long-standing views about sponsored dynamis runs (I'm not a fan of them in general). On the other hand it seems as though it's not unreasonable to ask for an appropriately larger cut, it's just a matter of deciding what's appropriate.

Another idea I had was that a person who gets a 35 (seacommed or freelot) or a seacom'd 25 would get 0 alexandrite, and the rest would be split among the rest of the party, with a person who didn't seacom an armor drop getting a greater portion than someone who did. But in that case, what is an appropriate multiple, three or four times as much? Using the dynamis analogy again, I know in some seacom dynamis runs people are allowed to put either an AF or a 100 piece in their comment, so something that mirrors that would probably be most fair, I think.

Anyway, what are people's opinions on this subject?

[KSDI]

When I run Pick-up groups i usually let Alexandrites free-drop. Haven't had anyone complain yet.

[Wizerd]

Another idea I had was that a person who gets a 35 (seacommed or freelot) or a seacom'd 25 would get 0 alexandrite, and the rest would be split among the rest of the party, with a person who didn't seacom an armor drop getting a greater portion than someone who did. But in that case, what is an appropriate multiple, three or four times as much? Using the dynamis analogy again, I know in some seacom dynamis runs people are allowed to put either an AF or a 100 piece in their comment, so something that mirrors that would probably be most fair, I think.

Well, if you're looking to mirror the way some linkshells do dynamis with AF vs 100 coins, then people who choose Alexandrites should get to lot on the purses (off NMs and the Boss). Let the singles freefall.

[Kaylia]

It's hard to comment, because I can't tell the value of lv35 pieces, and the run where you get absolutely nothing are far too common. I do agree that people who join pick up and arent lotting on gears should get a better chance at alexandrite, but in what ratio, idk?


We had a disagreement in my static about alexandrite the other day. Personaly, I believe the only fair way is to split equally between everyone, and people can do what they want with them after (give to another static member, sell for cheap, sell full price in bazaar)

[zephr]

Leader lots all alexandrite and pouches, pops them at the end and splits equally between all people regardless of search comment or number of 15/25/35 pieces gotten.

Seems like the only fair option to me.

[Lyramion]

Even the JPs don´t seem to have gottan to a common rule there yet. Some shouts have a spot for 1 sole Alexandrite lotter - which can make sense in the way that Alexandrites are still so ridiculus. Other shouts just let them freedrop

[Jaybar]

As a LS Salvage group (not a LS-wide event, but the group consists of LS members), we have one person gather all 'Drites and pop any pouches then split at end. A couple people don't want because they won't be upgrading, so the split is pretty nice.

I think as a LS it would be nice to pool Alexandrites together, but then that brings us to the whole Dynamis tid-bit of sponsoring etc etc. But to conclude - split is the fairest way I can see so far.

[Xanthu]

As a LS Salvage group (not a LS-wide event, but the group consists of LS members), we have one person gather all 'Drites and pop any pouches then split at end. A couple people don't want because they won't be upgrading, so the split is pretty nice.

I think as a LS it would be nice to pool Alexandrites together, but then that brings us to the whole Dynamis tid-bit of sponsoring etc etc. But to conclude - split is the fairest way I can see so far.

This became a bit of a debate for our LS. Splitting it all like this means taking forever on your own. And what's to stop people from saying "Oh I'd like a weapon" then sell the rocks on the side? We're more interested in someone getting a weapon ASAP, not taking an eternity on it.

Judging who we should upgrade is a whole 'nother can of worms too.

[Lujei]

We had a disagreement in my static about alexandrite the other day. Personaly, I believe the only fair way is to split equally between everyone, and people can do what they want with them after (give to another static member, sell for cheap, sell full price in bazaar)

This is what our group decided, too. We have someone lot them and split them evenly at the end of the Salvage.

[Suiram]

I appreciate people's responses. However, I want to reiterate in my question that I'm not asking about static groups. For my static we do what everyone has been saying, pool them and distro after the run, and I agree that's best for that kind of situation. My main question, though, is about in a pickup run, if someone joins who has no desire to lot armor but would like instead to search comment a larger portion of the alexandrites, what an appropriate amount would be? So far on that question it seems only Wizerd has really proposed something, which actually seems like a fair idea (people who pick alexandrites instead of armor lot the pouches, alexandrites from gears are free-fall or split evenly to all at the end). Does anyone have thoughts on that kind of scenario?

[Kirbyprime]

That could work, but probably won't be too popular until Alexandrite prices stabilize.

[Lordwafik]

I lot them all, and log out.

Just kidding, I lot them all and split them evenly between everyone. If there was a way to pay an entry fee and dynamis like amounts of alex dropped I wouldn't mind having someone sponsor at all. The systems are entirely different.

[Arthars]

im doing 3 man runs more often now (for 35s mainly)

so what i do is if 1 of them just want alex and dont need any 35s, he/she gtet 50% of all the alex while the other 2 members get 1/2 of the other 50%

if a 35 drops, the person who get 35 get 0 alex, and alex lotter + other poor guy split in another manner like 7:3 or 6:4

be it static or pick ups, allowing 1 person to lot ALL alex because he/she doesnt want any 35 is bullshit tho

i would forsee him getting 1000 alex before a 35 drop for ONE RANDOM MEMBER in the group, not to mention /shout can do 1 2 3 4 SSR NMs fairly easy now, so thats about 60-80 alex.........1 run 1 mil for him/her if he/she cash in? NO WAY FOR ME!

better to split all and maybe let alex person get "a lil" more is fine

A GENEROUS EXAMPLE: 5:1:1:1:1:1
Drop 50, alex person get 25, the rest get 5 each
fu even this rate is too good for the alex lotter imo!

[Kittyn]

I lot them all, and log out.

Just kidding, I lot them all and split them evenly between everyone. If there was a way to pay an entry fee and dynamis like amounts of alex dropped I wouldn't mind having someone sponsor at all. The systems are entirely different.

I don't see why people need an entry fee to sponsor? It really is just a gimmick isn't it? The person wouldn't sponsor if they weren't getting more "gil value" out of it which basically is the premise for sponsoring. But as it stands 500K entry fee and 1-3m gil equivalent to sponsor is ok. 0 entry fee & 250K gil equivalent to sponsor is not ok?

[Loziel]

I don't see why people need an entry fee to sponsor? It really is just a gimmick isn't it? The person wouldn't sponsor if they weren't getting more "gil value" out of it which basically is the premise for sponsoring. But as it stands 500K entry fee and 1-3m gil equivalent to sponsor is ok. 0 entry fee & 250K gil equivalent to sponsor is not ok?

Its not even comparable. To sponsor someone elses mythic, it takes MY 1500 AP gained from MY effort using MY limited Tag resource, on top of that the entire group could potentially come away from that salvage run with Zero notable drops whatsoever on multiple occasions. At least with Dynamis sponsoring you get the opportunity at AF2 at zero cost other than time, and if your not after AF2 you get Participation points which can be used to lot other Gear elsewhere with the LS. that seems a better trade off for many people. Even on the shittiest City run it rains AF2. Salvage is not compatible with a sponsorship system unless you can find a massive group of completly selfless people. It is obvious this system fails hard, the only people I can imagine saying it doesnt are people who have managed to convince a fairly large group of people to sacrifice all their rocks to that person.

[Arthars]

Its not even comparable. To sponsor someone elses mythic, it takes MY 1500 AP gained from MY effort using MY limited Tag resource, on top of that the entire group could potentially come away from that salvage run with Zero notable drops whatsoever on multiple occasions. At least with Dynamis sponsoring you get the opportunity at AF2 at zero cost other than time, and if your not after AF2 you get Participation points which can be used to lot other Gear elsewhere with the LS. that seems a better trade off for many people. Even on the shittiest City run it rains AF2. Salvage is not compatible with a sponsorship system unless you can find a massive group of completly selfless people. It is obvious this system fails hard, the only people I can imagine saying it doesnt are people who have managed to convince a fairly large group of people to sacrifice all their rocks to that person.

cant agree more.
If you agree to the rule proposed to "let me have all rocks prz"
that means your brainwashed and pretty screwed imo

[FailureMidgard]

First off, Assault Points have a gil value, if you want them to. I have sold assault points in the past, I have bought 4 items from AP, and run salvage regularly. I don't understand why people are complaining about Assault Points...you are clearly doing salvage for armor upgrades regardless of the existence of alexandrite. If you are really hurting that bad for Yigit, perhaps you shouldn't run salvage 7 days a week (and if you are running less than 7 per week and have been playing the game for even a few months, you really should need no more items from AP).

I guess suddenly now that Alexandrite drops, people are all up in arms at a valuable resource being lost that they likely didn't even care about before. I agree that it would have been nice to not have a gil/collect part of the quest. But trying to claim this is entirely different than dynamis is just silly. In both situations, someone is getting shit for free. End of story. The people going to dynamis that someone else is running clearly are going for the armor and want to be there for that. The people going to salvage are in the exact same situation. You've been running it for X months with no Alexandrite return, and suddenly you're upset if someone else gets the Alexandrite? While I'm all for evenly splitting things like that, it is the exact same as extra currency past the cost of the glass in dynamis.

Anyway, it's your call how you do it. I agree SE could have come up with a more fun way of doing it...but now that it's there, you can either complete your entire LSes mythics 11 years from now, or you can start completing some in the near future, and complete 1 every 4 months or so (assuming no extra Alexandrite is bought). Work as a team, help out your friends and perhaps they will return the favor...

Oh yea, and agreeing to help out a friend is nowhere near "brainwashed". You're just a selfish tool, and I'm really glad you're not in my shell.

[Suiram]

Once again, I'm not asking about LS groups or statics or groups of friends. I understand that maybe that's also a debate worth having, but I wish the people who were opinionated on that question would opine on my scenario as well, which is as follows.

You're a guy who doesn't want any armor from Salvage, and you have extra tags in the week that you don't spend on your LS or static runs (where you are you likely splitting the alexandrites evenly), and you go with pickup groups on those days. You answer a shout in Whitegate or a pickup group from people you know who are 5/6 on a run. Is it reasonable to ask for a larger cut of alexandrites for it, and if so, what is the fairest cut so that you aren't taking advantage of them? Is no cut still the fairest cut in that situation, and you should just split evenly? Should you ask for priority on coinpurses as Wizard suggested, or a 50/50 split like Arthars mentioned?

If that is the scenario people were talking about, then I apologize, but I just keep seeing people talk about "making rules" and "systems" suggesting they are thinking of more long-term, organized Salvage runs than the kind I'm asking about.

[FailureMidgard]

Once again, I'm not asking about LS groups or statics or groups of friends. I understand that maybe that's also a debate worth having, but I wish the people who were opinionated on that question would opine on my scenario as well, which is as follows.

You're a guy who doesn't want any armor from Salvage, and you have extra tags in the week that you don't spend on your LS or static runs (where you are you likely splitting the alexandrites evenly), and you go with pickup groups on those days. You answer a shout in Whitegate or a pickup group from people you know who are 5/6 on a run. Is it reasonable to ask for a larger cut of alexandrites for it, and if so, what is the fairest cut so that you aren't taking advantage of them? Is no cut still the fairest cut in that situation, and you should just split evenly? Should you ask for priority on coinpurses as Wizard suggested, or a 50/50 split like Arthars mentioned?

If that is the scenario people were talking about, then I apologize, but I just keep seeing people talk about "making rules" and "systems" suggesting they are thinking of more long-term, organized Salvage runs than the kind I'm asking about.

I don't think a blanket answer can be given to that question. Personally, if someone came with me and didn't want to lot any armor at all, I would have no problem with them taking all the alexandrite. If I were that 1 coming, I would also understand someone's position that they didn't want to give it all, but were willing to give a bit more. I think it really depends on the people/group.

Anywhere from giving the person 1 extra share of Alexandrite (say 6 people are on the run and 42 Alexandrite drop...divide by 7 and give the person 2/7ths where everyone else gets 1/7th) to giving them the bags and splitting the rest to giving it all to them. Really, I would just talk it over with the group and see what everyone thought was fair. There is no way to get a universal response.

[Kittyn]

I don't think a blanket answer can be given to that question. Personally, if someone came with me and didn't want to lot any armor at all, I would have no problem with them taking all the alexandrite. If I were that 1 coming, I would also understand someone's position that they didn't want to give it all, but were willing to give a bit more. I think it really depends on the people/group.

Anywhere from giving the person 1 extra share of Alexandrite (say 6 people are on the run and 42 Alexandrite drop...divide by 7 and give the person 2/7ths where everyone else gets 1/7th) to giving them the bags and splitting the rest to giving it all to them. Really, I would just talk it over with the group and see what everyone thought was fair. There is no way to get a universal response.

Yes this is good advice. As long as everyone in the group approves, there should be no problem. Make sure you take screenshots of the conversation in case anyone somehow "forgets" the terms of the agreement. Always be 1-2 people who will put up a fuss just because you asked or afterwards just to cause drama.